with the request made by the representatives of the coal operators. However, we said to the representatives of the coal operators that if we took up the investigation with the superintendent of any of their mines, we would request and were very sure you would be glad to step aside.

Mr. MURRAY. Oh, yes.

Senator GOODING. So that you might not come in contact with one another.

Senator WHEELER. What the representatives of the coal operators said they were worried about was, that we might talk to some of their people and that you would put it all over their men, or something of that kind, and they wished we would not permit any arguments between you and their men. The subcommittee very promptly stated that there would be no argument between you or your representatives and their men.

Senator GOODING. Oh, yes; we are not here for argument. We are here to view the situation and to get the facts so far as we can. Mr. MURRAY. We understand that.

Senator GOODING. And we are here with open minds, to go over the field and report back to the Senate, and of course we can not have any arguments or anything that might tend to make a bad matter

worse.

Mr. MURRAY. We understand that.

Senator GOODING. I understand of course, and the subcommittee understood before we came down here, that there was such a condition existing in this field that it was not best to have you gentlemen together at all during the investigation. So when you go with us this morning, and if we conclude to go over conditions with their superintendents so far as the mines are concerned, you will very naturally step aside, and I am sure you will be glad to do that. Mr. MURRAY. Oh, yes.

Senator GOODING. The committee desires to keep away from any argument between the two factions. What we want to get if we can are the facts, and I think that is the better way all round. Mr. MURRAY. I think so. Senator GOODING. Now, we want your schedule this morning for the subcommittee is very keen to get away. When I wired you I understood we would arrive at 8.25 a. m., and I thought we might get started sharply at 10 o'clock. That seems to be impossible. Now then, we want to get away as soon as we can. We would like to be ready to leave at 11.15. Have you a schedule prepared for us for to-day?

Mr. MURRAY. I had no schedule prepared for I did not know just what you proposed doing. However, if you would like for me to suggest a schedule I shall be glad to do so.

Senator WHEELER. We want you to do so.

Senator GOODING. That is what I thought I gave you to understand n my telegram.

Mr. MURRAY. Inasmuch as you are getting a late start I think it might be better to select places more convenient to the city to-day. Perhaps we might take the mines of the Pittsburgh Terminal Co., which are only 12 to 15 miles outside the city. We might take mines Terminal No. 2, Terminal No. 3, Terminal No. 4, Terminal No. 6

and Terminal No. 8. That will give you about enough work to keep you until late in the afternoon or early evening.

Senator GOODING. We want to put in all the time we can.

Mr. MURRAY. And if you should want to continue on in the evening we can take you to other places. It will just depend on how long you intend to keep at it.

Senator PINE. We better keep at it rather late.

Senator GOODING. We hope to get through in three days, and perhaps we can do it if we keep fairly busy.

Senator WHEELER. That is, as to the Pittsburgh field, you understand.

Mr. MURRAY. Yes, sir.

Senator GOODING. Could we get into the Central Pennsylvania district?

Mr. MURRAY. No; not in three days.

Senator GOODING. What is the difference in the conditions there and here? Are they not about the same?

Mr. MURRAY. Well, there are different conditions.

Senator WAGNER. And do you think we ought to see all of them? Mr. MURRAY. Yes, sir; I think before you leave this section you ought to visit the Central Pennsylvania district.

Senator WHEELER. And one of the newspaper men suggested that we ought to see some of the southern district around here.

Mr. MURRAY. Northern West Virginia.

Senator GOODING. We can not go into that field at this time.

Mr. MURRAY. There are splendid roads and it is only about 70 miles to Fairmont, W. Va.

Senator GOODING. Let us make a start as early as we can to-day and not come to any decision on that at this time.

Mr. MURRAY. All right.

Senator WAGNER. We can not work at night out here, can we? Mr. MURRAY. It gets dark now around 6 o'clock and then you can not get around like you would desire.

Senator GOODING. Where can we eat lunch, say, at half past one? The newspaper men are very anxious that we should give them a chance to stop somewhere that they may be able to reach telephone or telegraph communication. I think you had better arrange something of that kind.

Mr. MURRAY. Perhaps you would have to come back to Pittsburgh

to eat.

Senator WAGNER. Oh, no; can not we get some sandwiches somewhere, or if not that then let us take some with us.

Senator PINE. Oh, yes; I take it we can eat almost anywhere nearby the scene of our investigation.

Mr. MURRAY. Yes; it would take you almost an hour to come back to Pittsburgh. We will try to arrange it if you wish us to do so when we get to Bruceton, in the heart of the mining field. I can arrange with some of our local people to try to provide at least a light lunch for you gentlemen if we can get to a suitable place.

Senator GOODING. That is all right.

Senator PINE. Oh, yes; we are not particular about that.

Mr. MURRAY. We will arrange it as best we can.

Senator GOODING. That will be perfectly all right, Mr. Murray. Now, if you will get your schedule ready we will start right out.

92214-28-PT 2-2

Mr. MURRAY. I will arrange to have you taken to Castle Shannon district to-day and then try to get through rather early and then you may go and take in a portion of the Pittsburgh Coal Co.'s territory.

Senator WHEELER. Very well, you arrange a program.

Mr. MURRAY. You can keep working until 6 o'clock, and after 6 o'clock it will be dark and would be difficult to make observations like you would want to do.

Senator GOODING. The mine operators wish a meeting with us then, and if we give them a meeting we will want to give you people a meeting in the evening.

Mr. MURRAY. We will be at your command.

Senator GOODING. Very well; we will work this thing out as we get to it. You gentlemen get ready and we will leave the hotel in automobiles that we have asked the Deputy Sergeant at Arms to provide, getting away just as quickly as possible.

(Thereupon, at 10.45 o'clock a. m., the conference with the representatives of the United Mine Workers of America was closed, and at the request of the press photographers, a photograph was taken of the members of the subcommittee and representatives of the United Mine Workers of America.)

Senator GOODING. The subcommittee has thought that it should have some photographs taken on its own account while visiting the mining sections and Mr. McCRORY, one of the press photographers, has agreed during the tour of the coal fields to take photographs as requested by the committee, to be used as a part of our report.

(Thereupon, the official party entered automobiles at the William Penn Hotel, as follows: Automobile No. 1, Senators Gooding (chairman of the subcommittee) and Wheeler, International Vice President Murray, and Official Reporter Hart, of the committee. Automobile No. 2, Senators Pine and Wagner; Mr. Fagan, president of the local union; and Deputy Sergeant at Arms Brady; followed by several other automobiles occupied by newspaper reporters and news photographers, and motored to Terminal Mine No. 2 of the Pittsburgh Terminal Coal Corporation at Castle Shannon.)

TERMINAL MINE No. 2,

PITTSBURGH TERMINAL COAL CORPORATION,
Near Castle Shannon, Pa.

The subcommittee arrived at Terminal Mine No. 2 at 12.30 p. m. They viewed 14 double company houses, boarded up, on the righthand side of the road, and 9 double houses, boarded up, on the lefthand side of the road. They then viewed 2 rows of one-story barracks on the left-hand side of the road erected by the United Mine Workers of America, and 3 rows of barracks farther up the hillside on the left-hand side of the road. It was explained by representatives of the United Mine Workers of America that these barracks were constructed to house such of the evicted union miners as they could not find houses for. The barracks for the most part were partitioned with rough boards set upright, 4 rooms each, and each room something like 12 by 12 feet in size.

The first quarters visited were occupied by a family named Steck, composed of father, mother, and eight children. Only the children were at home.

The next family visited was that of Paul Brindle, composed of father, mother, and one child. Among other things noted in the quarters was a cheap radio set with a pair of hearing tubes.

TERMINAL MINE No. 3,

PITTSBURGH TERMINAL COAL CORPORATION,

Near Castle Shannon, Pa.

The committee noted that the company property was barricaded by the erection of a board fence about 12 feet in height. There were three rows of union barracks on the right-hand side of the road.

The committee visited one of the quarters in the first row of barracks, occupied by Mr. and Mrs. Brizzell and five children.

The committee also visited the quarters of Mrs. Frank Sherman and seven children in the second row of barracks.

The committee noted the insanitary conditions, one outside toilet for a number of families and mud 2 or 3 inches deep leading almost right up to the front door of each of the quarters.

The committee then went to the company office and store and called for a representative of the Pittsburgh Terminal Coal Corporation. General Supt. J. M. Provost came forward and he was requested to take the committee around and show them some of the company houses. On the trip up and down hill the following statement was made:

STATEMENT OF J. M. PROVOST, GENERAL SUPERINTENDENT PITTSBURGH COAL TERMINAL CORPORATION

Senator GOODING. How many mines are you operating?

Mr. PROVOST. Six mines.

Senator GOODING. You control the operation of all of the company's properties here?

Mr. PROVOST. Yes, sir.

Senator GOODING. How many men are you employing at the present time?

Mr. PROVOST. Twenty-two hundred.

Senator GOODING. How many did you employ before the strike? Mr. PROVOST. Thirty-two hundred.

Senator GOODING. What was your tonnage output before the strike? Mr. PROVOST. Between 14,000 and 15,000 short tons.

Senator GOODING. How many tons are you producing now?

Mr. PROVOST. About 9,000 tons now.

Senator GOODING. What are these houses we are now viewing?

Mr. PROVOST. These are company houses.

Senator GOODING. What proportion of the new miners, of the strike breakers that you now have, are negros?

Mr. PROVOST. We have very few negroes.

Senator GOODING. Where do your white miners come from?

Mr. PROVOST. From all over the country, from West Virginia, and Ohio, and other places.

Senator GOODING. What occupation did they follow before coming here?

Mr. PROVOST. The most of them were miners. We do not take them unless they are miners.

Senator GOODING. And you have outside men as I understand? Mr. PROVOST. We have some outside men, around the tipple, but inside they must have been miners. In fact, we have very few that have not been miners.

Senator WHEELER. How many coal and iron police have you?
Mr. PROVOST. I think there are sixty-some.

Senator WAGNER. Are they paid by your company?

Mr. PROVOST. Yes, sir.

Senator GoODING. This subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Interstate Commerce is here getting all the information it can as to conditions. You may tell us anything you want to tell us, or show us anything you wish us to see. We want to hear and see both

sides.

Mr. PROVOST. As you will notice all these houses, except one or two, are now filled.

Senator GOODING. What is the capacity of them?

Mr. PROVOST. There are 77 double houses.

Senator GOODING. How many rooms in each?

Mr. PROVOST. Four rooms on each side.

Senator GOODING. What is the size of them?

Mr. PROVOST. About 28 by 32 feet.

Senator GOODING. There are two families to each house, one on each side?

Mr. PROVOST. Yes, sir.

Senator GOODING. What is the average size family that you have here?

Mr. PROVOST. About six members.

(At this moment two coal miners' wives came down the hill from the direction of the company's store and started into the rear of one of the houses. Senator Gooding made an effort to interrogate them and one of the women, talking broken English, stated as follows:)

STATEMENT OF MRS. MIKE BORSIS

Senator GOODING. Do you live here?

Mrs. BORSIS. Me no understand.

Senator GOODING. Do you stay in this house?

Mrs. BORSIS. Yes, sir.

Senator GOODING. How long have you lived?

Mrs. BORSIS. Me no understand.

Senator GOODING. I want to know how long you have stayed here in this house.

Mrs. BORSIS. About three weeks. We live over here [pointing] before that.

Senator GOODING. Where did you come from?

Mrs. BORSIS. From Marianna, Washington County, Pa.

Senator GOODING. What does your husband do?

Mrs. BORSIS. He mine.

Senator GOODING. What did he do before he came here?