he calls at the door, "Hello, so and so," and he is interested; and the telephone rings, and they send flowers and other presents down there, and he is told about this, and the man's mind is just in a whirl all the time.

I have forbidden it. I have told Mrs. Vare to keep them out, but she just can not do it. This poor woman is there, and these people want to show courtesy and kindness to her husband, and she lets them in; and every time that happens it is putting a nail in what he will be laid out in ultimately. Doctor Kirby will tell you the same thing.

Now, I can not make a prognosis of this man, because he is getting better. If they let him alone, he gets better. If they keep all the people away from him, in time he pulls up a little. The paralysis is improving. His hand is getting so that there is a little movement. I do not know whether you gentlemen saw the picture of the man when he was sent to Florida or not. If I may just mention this for a moment, because this is the human side of it all, I said to Mrs. Vare and all of them, "Put the car in the yards. Do not let anybody see this man. Put a policeman there, and keep them away from him." Instead of that, they ran the car into Broad Street Station, gentlemen, and a hundred and fifty or two hundred men went there and literally forced themselves, practically forced themselves, into the car to shake hands with him and wish him Godspeed and all that. Cruel and inhuman-that is what that was. Doctor Kirby will tell you the same thing; and I protested against it all.

Now, that is the situation. What the prognosis may be, I do not

know.

Now may I refer, Senator Reed, for just a moment, to the fall of 1927? He has not been in condition to testify at any time since he received this notice. As counsel for the man-in fact, I came into this matter at a late day, as you know, because I came in to help get the ballot boxes and have them brought before the committeeI spent my summer largely around Philadelphia aiding Senator Waterman's committee, seeing to it that everything possible was done to aid them in their investigation-everything possible. But he has not been in a position, and he is not in a position-you trained lawyers, distinguished lawyers as you are, know it is impossible for anyone to prepare to present a case with a client paralyzed and helpless, a man who can not talk to you for more than two or three minutes consecutively without going into this condition that Doctor Kirby will tell you is the result of a paralytic stroke. He has to be lifted up into bed, and laid down on the bed, and off he goes to sleep.

I had a very important case in the orphans' court adjourned because he sent for me, and I walked in to see him, and he said "Frank, I can't talk to you. Can you come down to-morrow?" Now, mind you, I had had this case adjourned expressly in order to see him. I go back the next day, and the same thing happens again. Mr. Douglas can confirm that to you.

You can see the situation I am in.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any idea of any time in the future when Mr. Vare may be in a condition either to come before the committee or to go on the floor of the Senate or to consult with you so as to advise you with reference to any evidence he desires to present?

Mr. BROWN. Senator, you are asking me a question that the doctors should answer. I can not answer that question. May I have the favor of presenting Doctor Kirby, who has been attending this man?

The CHAIRMAN. In a moment.

Senator GOFF. Mr. Brown, may I ask you a question? Did the investigation conducted by the committee of which Senator Waterman is chairman develop any state of facts which you, as the legal adviser of Mr. Vare, feel should be discussed before this committee or replied to?

Mr. BROWN. Absolutely; yes, sir. If I may interrupt you, while there may have been clerical errors and irregularities in a few places here and there, that investigation shows overwhelmingly that Mr. Vare was duly elected a Senator from Pennsylvania. It shows it all the way through; and I think Senator Waterman will confirm that.

Senator GOFF. You having access to that evidence, and having been impressed with it as you have now stated you are, why, in your opinion, is it necessary that you confer further with Mr. Vare before you should introduce the evidence in rebuttal or in explanation of what that committee brought out?

Mr. BROWN. Why, Senator Goff, it seems to me to be self-evident that where the case has been-by the way, it is not finished, anyhow. I understand this committee has made some report. I have never seen it. I have never had an opportunity to peruse it, to present any defense to it or any explanation or anything else about it. I have never seen it. I do not know what it all is. If I am to be his counsel I ought to have before me what the accusation is, and the evidence of it, so that I can meet it if it can be met; and so with the other. I have not had the opportunity to go into detail and compare what one committee has obtained as against what another committee has obtained here. I understand that the committee of which Senator Waterman is chairman is comparing what this committee has done with what it has done, trying to correlate the evidence which has been taken. None of it has been given to me in that aspect. I am unable to consult my client; and if you want to sum up a proposition for a client, or to present the case of a client, you certainly can not do it without consulting the client.

Senator GoFF. My question is directed to this state of facts: If the facts disclosed are self-evident to counsel-and we know, as lawyers, that sometimes that situation arises-then is it essential that the client himself should be present in a civil action or in an investigation when those self-evident facts are discussed and replied to by his attorney?

Mr. BROWN. Senator Goff, as a lawyer, may I answer you in this way?

Senator GOFF. Answer in any way; certainly.

Mr. BROWN. How can a lawyer, acting either with due fidelity to the court (as you gentlemen are bound to do to this body) or to his client, which is our oath-how can he do that without having a full and free conference with his client and submitting the testimony to him, getting his view of it, and correlating it with the other evidence in the case-in other words, preparing the case? I can not go into court, and I would not be asked by any court in America to go into

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court, to try this man for a crime with him in the condition that he is in. No court would try such a case. No court would try a civil case with this man in the condition that he is in to-day, especially when they are informed, as they will be informed by Doctor Kirby, unless I am very much mistaken, that further proceedings in the trial will not only be distressingly or disastrously harmful but probably will be fatal in their results.

That is the condition before you. Conditions, not theories, are confronting us; and I can only present the situation as it is.

Senator GOFF. Mr. Brown, my questions were directed to find the real state of facts as you represent them for Mr. Vare, and have it appear on the record. That is what I was asking the questions for. Mr. BROWN. Senator Goff, I do not know what this committee has done. I have no information as to what investigation this committee has made or what the result of that investigation has been. I have had no opportunity to compare that with what the other committee has done. Probably 20 people-I do not know how many-were called down here next Tuesday, by the way, by Senator Waterman, to summarize this evidence in some shape so as to put it in tangible form so that every one can understand what the evidence is. Volumes and volumes have been introduced. I have just left the room over there, filled with these records. Now, they may be put in some shape for proper summation, so that we can examine them and treat them intelligently, as it would be due a body like this to have a matter presented to it in proper and intelligible form.

Senator GoFF. Possibly I could assist you in appreciating my state of mind by putting to you a concrete question.

Suppose that a civil investigation were going on, and the principal litigant either a plaintiff or a defendant-in this civil action were taken sick, and the attorneys were just as competent to consider the evidence, newly discovered or otherwise, and to present it, as the litigant himself: The court might say, and might say with propriety, "We will continue, in the absence of the defendant, either the presentation or the discussion of these facts, and close up the trial." That does not mean necessarily that the decision would be rendered; but it means that the proceedings would go along expeditiously, in order that time might be saved.

That was really the question.

Mr. BROWN. I see your point. I gather your point of view. Senator GOFF. I, of course, know that there were other legal advisers of Mr. Vare connected with this matter before you came in. Mr. BROWN. I should say not. I asked him if anybody had advised him before I appeared.

Senator GoFF. The point I want to get at is this: What possible assistance could any man-not Mr. Vare; I am not considering him; any man in Mr. Vare's position-furnish to his legal advisers that would assist either them or the committee in replying to these questions and understanding them when they are discussed and presented?

Mr. BROWN. Senator Goff, it is a well known legal principlesurely it is not for me to talk law in this presence, before eminent lawyers, but it is impossible for me to determine the state of mind of any one else. That certainly can not be given in evidence, and

it is not known. It is beyond the ken of man to know what may be in another man's mind. As I say, Mr. Vare is obsessed with this idea. He wants an opportunity to do it. He says he can do this, that, and the other thing; he can clear up this situation and that. He was charged with conspiracy with everybody in the State and Commonwealth to cheat and defraud, and all that-people he never knew. No evidence at all has ever been produced that he had anything to do with them. He wants to show just what his relations with all these people are.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did he not do that when we asked you, at the last hearing we had, when we were taking evidence, if you had anything to offer?

Mr. BROWN. I beg your pardon, Senator Reed; I never represented him at any of your hearings. I read a telegram, and then you gentlemen conferred and said you would wait some further word. Mr. Mackey was campaign manager, I remember, and he spoke for the whole party.

The CHAIRMAN. It may have been Mr. Mackey.

Mr. BROWN. But I have not been counsel. I appeared in May, and I appeared again at Chicago.

The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me; I may have miscalled you.

Mr. BROWN. I may be mistaken.

Senator GoFF. No; I think you are correct. That is my recollection.

The CHAIRMAN. The last hearing was on May 19, 1928.

Senator GoFF. Senator Reed, while you are looking that matter up, I want to ask Mr. Brown another question.

Mr. Brown, what would appear in the evidence that would be developed from the examination of the contents of a ballot box, so to speak, which would require either the explanation or the testimony of Mr. Vare, other than the opinion and the legal construction of his attorneys, if that matter were to be taken up before this committee? Mr. BROWN. Senator Goff, that is a very large question to answer, a very comprehensive one, and I do not think I could answer it offhand. I do not know what may happen until you come to present the whole picture to me. I could then tell whether or not there were any defects in it.

Senator GoFF. You appreciate, of course, that this committee is an agency, so to speak, of the United States Senate?

Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir.

Senator GoFF. That it has certain functions to perform and certain duties to discharge; that its term expires with this term of the Senate; that the committee, if it is to make any report to the Senate of its agency and the discharge of its duties that would be satisfactory to an impartial mind, should be in possession of facts and circumstances which will justify the report which it makes to the Senate, or the excuse for not proceeding to a full determination of the matter.

Mr. BROWN. Senator Goff, I have not seen the report. I have not seen what the committee has done. Mr. Vare has had no opportunity to see it, as far as I know, and I certainly have not. I have had no opportunity to consider the conclusions, no opportunity to defend

Senator GoFF. Have you advised with any of his former legal advisers?

Mr. BROWN. He had none. Mr. Mackey was down here as campaign manager for all-for the whole party in Philadelphia.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Brown, this is what the record shows early in the hearings. You will find it at pages 492 to 526 of Volume I:

Mr. HARRY A. MACKEY. I represent the Hon. William S. Vare here in the capacity of the campaign manager of the Vare-Beidleman-James-Woodward Campaign Committee, as well as being authorized by Mr. Vare to make this notation upon the record.

We are here with all our witnesses, all our books, all our receipts, and evidences of all our expenditures. We are here to give this committee all the information it desires, and we do not place upon the record any question as to the limitations to the qualifications of this committee.

Mr. Mackey appeared here and Mr. Vare appeared here on many occasions. Afterwards Mr. Vare was represented by Mr. Kelly, and then afterwards by you.

Now, at the conclusion of the testimony which was taken on May 8 of Mr. Fox, when Mr. Kelly cross-examined Mr. Fox at length as the attorney of Mr. Vare, when the cross-examination by Mr. Kelly was concluded the chairman made this announcement:

That is all, then, Mr. Fox. That ends this particular hearing I do not know whether the committee will take any other testimony or not. We may,

after consideration. I have not talked with the committee. That ends this particular hearing, unless Mr. Vare or Mr. Wilson has something he desires to present.

Mr. VARE. No, sir; nothing.

Mr. WILSON. Nothing that we desire to present at this time.

Thereupon we adjourned at 1.30 p. m. The whole hearing was on the 8th of May. We reassembled on the 19th, and we notified Mr. Vare of the meeting; and it was then that Mr. Vare wrote us, stating that he had had an acute, attack of indigestion, which prevented his attendance.

Mr. BROWN. It was a stroke, I think, if I may interrupt you. They called it indigestion, but, in my judgment, it was a slight paralytic stroke.

The CHAIRMAN. We had the favor of your appearance at that time, and you made this statement:

I do not know about the testimony. I do not know what testimony would be required here in this investigation. As I understand, a statement has been submitted to you to this committee-covering the expenditures and how the money was expended, and all that. I do not know what else he can add to it. Then you stated that you had been his counsel for only a few days. Mr. BROWN. A friend of his family for many years, sir-many

years.

The CHAIRMAN. Now you tell us that there has been a lot of evi dence that you think clears up this case.

Mr. BROWN. Pardon me; may I interrupt you again, Senator Reed? I do not draw a conclusion. I say it would be helpful to a proper determination of it. That is a better way to put it.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. That evidence was taken by the Committee on Privileges and Elections. If that is true, it is available to you. If it is not available, this committee will undertake to seeI say this with all respect to the authority of the other committee, but I think I can say we will undertake to see that the evidence is