ELECTION OF A SENATOR FROM PENNSYLVANIA SATURDAY, JANUARY 15, 1927 UNITED STATES SENATE, SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN SENATORIAL ELECTIONS, Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to the call of the chairman, at 11 o'clock a. m. in the Senate Office Building, Senator James A. Reed presiding. Present: Senators Reed of Missouri (chairman), Goff, McNary, La Follette, and King. There appeared before the committee Mr. William S. Vare; Mr. William B. Wilson; Mayor Freeland Kendrick, of Philadelphia; Prothonotary John M. Scott of the Court of Common Pleas, of Philadelphia; Mr. Samuel B. Scott, chairman of the registration commission in and for the county of Philadelphia; and Miss Marie O'Connell, Mr. Benjamin H. Renshaw, Miss E. Lois Clement, and Mr. William Reinhart, members of the said registration commission; Mr. Charles A. Douglas and Mr. Rowland B. Mahany, counsel for Mr. Wilson; Mr. Joseph P. Gaffney, city solicitor of Philadelphia; and Mr. Owen J. Roberts, counsel for Prothonotary Scott. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Mr. Barry, will you kindly tell the committee what progress you have made in the matter of securing the evidence we asked you to get? STATEMENT OF DAVID S. BARRY, SERGEANT AT ARMS, UNITED STATES SENATE Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Mr. Chairman, when we went over to Philadelphia the mayor and the prothonotary expressed a willingness to cooperate with us in every way, and did so. But they found it would require a court order to get the ballot boxes and other paraphernalia. After we consulted with the committee by telephone, that part of it was allowed to go until you could have a meeting here. But before coming away we sealed the rooms in which the ballot boxes are. There are three or four thousand metal cases. I do not know how they could be handled. The mayor said he would be very glad to help us get them into freight cars, help with the trucking, and would give us assistance in every way. So we thought we had better seal the rooms in which those boxes were. After having that served subpoenas upon the board of registration-five members of board-and the counsel, and serving subpoenas upon the prothonotary and the mayor, to whom they were directed, we then went to the bureau of registration, and as the best thing to be done, we sealed each compartment in which these registration books are contained. There are a great many metal lockers, you might call them, 27 of them, and in them are these registry books. The books are about a foot or a foot and a half long. They are flat, just about half an inch thick. They would weigh, I should think, about three-quarters of a pound each. I estimated there were about 3,000 of them. The CHAIRMAN. Registry books? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Registry books. There are two books written in each case, because the voters are checked in them, and the registration, making two books for each case. We sealed those. The CHAIRMAN. Did you see any of those books and open them? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Are they printed registration lists? Are the names printed in them, or written in by hand? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. I think they are written in by hand, but there was a good deal of matter that was printed, the requirements, the laws, etc. I think they were written in. The CHAIRMAN. Are not the names printed? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. I should say not, Senator. I do not remember very clearly. The gentlemen are here from the board of registration, and they can tell you. I should say they were written. The CHAIRMAN. The amount of it is this, that you have sealed the various rooms in which the ballot boxes and the election books are contained, and you subpoenaed the various custodians of those books and papers to come here to-day? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you understand that they are willing to produce the records, but that they think a court order is necessary for their protection? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir; that was the only point. They were willing to cooperate in every possible way. I just want to say this about sealing those two rooms; I am not sure that the ballots are in there. I assume they are. Senator KING. You mean in the boxes? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. In the rooms. One of those rooms is on the eighth floor of the Municipal Building over there, and the other room is down in the subbasement, about half a mile away from there, and we could not see into the rooms, but they were the rooms they thought they were in. The man who went with us was the only man who knew exactly, and he was doubtful. The CHAIRMAN. Who was sent with you? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. A young fellow there named Pasqualle Coco, or something like that. He was a boy who said he knew. The CHAIRMAN. Who sent this boy or man with you? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. He was sent by the mayor's office, and the mayor did everything in the world that he could do to locate them; and then this boy was the boy who saw them put them in there election night, and knew the room. Senator KING. Who had the key to the room? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. The prothonotary and the mayor. They can not go into these rooms except in the presence of each other. The CHAIRMAN. That is the rule? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. The prothonotary and the mayor must go in. Senator KING. Were the representatives of each of them with you when you went there? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. We did not go in. We could not go into the rooms. The CHAIRMAN. You assume that you have sealed the proper rooms, from the best information you could get, and the man who designated these rooms was sent with you from the mayor's office? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you were assured at the mayor's office by the mayor or his assistants that this man did know the proper rooms? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir. I should say that is so, although I am a little doubtful, as to that second room, whether he did know himself. We got the policeman and went down there to the basement, and got at this room largely by the process of elimiination; it was not some other room. He was sure it looked like the room, but I am a little doubtful, and there is no way of proving whether The CHAIRMAN. You did not ask the mayor and the prothonotary to produce their keys and go down and unlock the rooms? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. They were all gone. The prothonotary did offer to go with us to the room. The CHAIRMAN. Did I understand you to say that you could not get from the mayor's office, either from the mayor or from the prothonotary, any definite and certain information as to the room in which certain of these ballot boxes were alleged to be kept? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You are speaking now of ballot boxes; or are you speaking of registration lists? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Ballot boxes and other paraphernalia in connection with them. I think that was largely due to the fact that it was late in the evening. If they had had more time, they might have figured it out. They did everything they could. The CHAIRMAN. Was it your understanding, as a matter of fact, that these two gentlemen who were custodians, under the law, of the ballot boxes, and who held these keys, were not able to tell you definitely the rooms in which the ballots were? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Not any more definitely than I have explained to you. The CHAIRMAN. You have subpoenaed the various men to be here, these various officials? Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir; all those we had subpoenas for. The CHAIRMAN. I thank you. Please remain in attendance, Mr. Barry. Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Is Mayor Freeland Kendrick here? Mayor KENDRICK. Present. The CHAIRMAN. Is Mr. John M. Scott, the prothonotary here? Prothonotary SCOTT. Present. The CHAIRMAN. Is Mr. Samuel B. Scott here? Mr. SAMUEL B. SCOTT. Present. The CHAIRMAN. And Marie A. O'Connell? Miss O'CONNELL. Present. The CHAIRMAN. Benjamin H. Renshaw? Mr. RENSHAW. Present. The CHAIRMAN. E. Lois Clement? Miss CLEMENT. Present. The CHAIRMAN. William Reinhart? Mr. REINHART. Present. The CHAIRMAN. The last five constitute the registration commission for the city and county of Philadelphia. Mr. Wilson is present in person, is he? Mr. WILLIAM B. WILSON. Present. The CHAIRMAN. And Mr. Vare is present? Mr. VARE. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wilson, have you your counsel with you? Mr. WILSON. I have. The CHAIRMAN. Will you please name them? Mr. WILSON. Mr. Charles A. Douglas and Mr. Rowland B. Mahany. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Vare, have you counsel with you? Mr. VARE. I have not had time to select counsel. The CHAIRMAN. You can represent yourself in this matter, I take it, without counsel. Mr. VARE. I thank you. The CHAIRMAN. I think you are sufficiently able to do that. Mr. VARE. I thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Mayor Kendrick, is it your opinion that there is any law of Pennsylvania that would make it improper for you to bring those ballot boxes here, or turn them over under the subpoena of the Senate? Mayor KENDRICK. I believe that would have to be done under a court order. The CHAIRMAN. What court would have jurisdiction? Mayor KENDRICK. Common pleas. The CHAIRMAN. Is there some statute of your State touching this question? Mayor KENDRICK. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. You are willing to turn them over, I understand, from the Sergeant at Arms, if the court makes an order. Mayor KENDRICK. As far as I am concerned, I am quite willing. The CHAIRMAN. And willing to cooperate in the matter of getting the order? Mayor KENDRICK. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Scott, you have heard the questions I have asked Mayor Kendrick. What is your position in reference to those questions? Prothonotary SCOTT. My position, sir, is exactly similar to that of the mayor of Philadelphia. If I am permitted to state The CHAIRMAN. Certainly; state anything you want to state. Prothonotary SCOTT. I am the prothonotary of the court of common pleas and of the municipal court of Philadelphia. I am the mere executive arm of the court, and I am appointed as custodian, with the mayor, by a rule of the judges of the court of common pleas made a great many years ago. I feel that it would be not only my pleasure to cooperate with the mayor, but my duty as well. I am quite convinced, gentlemen, that there would not be very much objection on the part of the court judges of Philadelphia to make any suitable order for the delivery of those boxes. The CHAIRMAN. You heard the statement, I take it, of the Sergeant at Arms, to the effect that there seemed to be a little doubt about where some of the ballots were, and in what rooms they were kept. Have you any definite knowledge as to the exact rooms in which those ballot boxes are kept? Prothonotary SCOTT. Oh, yes, sir. The ballot boxes of the last general election, which I understand the committee are now talking about, are in the basement of the city hall, on the south side of the building. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether the particular room in which they are located is the one that was pointed out to the Sergeant at Arms? Prothonotary SCOTT. I was not there. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know the number of the room? Is it numbered? Prothonotary SCOTT. I do not know that it is numbered. The CHAIRMAN. Whether they have sealed the right room or not, the ballots cast in the last election are in some room in the basement? Prothonotary SCOTT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And whether the room is numbered or not, you know which room it is, do you? Prothonotary SCOTT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. If the right room has not been sealed, you will be glad to point it out to the Sergeant at Arms or his deputy? Prothonotary SCOTT. Certainly. Sergeant at Arms BARRY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to add that the mayor's office placed a special guard at each of these rooms, after we had sealed them, with very detailed instructions that they should never leave the rooms unguarded at any time. The CHAIRMAN. That is very fine. I think that is all, Mr. Scott; but I will ask the mayor again. I am just trying to be sure about the location of this room, Mr. Kendrick. Do you know whether the room in which the ballots are kept is numbered? Mayor KENDRICK. I do not think so, Senator. It is a vault in the basement, and my opinion is that there is another vault in one of the other stories, the sixth floor of the Municipal Building, and some of the ballot boxes, when they were received, were put into the lower vault and some in the upper one. On each of these vaults there are two doors. The key of the outer door is in the possession of the prothonotary, who has just spoken to you. The key of the inner door is in the possession of the mayor. Therefore, both would have to be present with the keys of the two doors to enter the vault. The young man, Pasqualle Coco, who conducted the Sergeant at Arms to the vaults, was my representative on the night of the election, November 2, to receive the ballot boxes, and of course he knows that they are in those two rooms. I instructed him to conduct the Sergeant at Arms to both of those rooms, and see that they were sealed, or allow him to seal them, and then I called in my director of public safety and directed that a guard of police officers be kept in front of 38996-27-PT 1-2 |