means of interrupting their proceedings.

As the Lords in administration were well aware, that the views of the noble mover and his friends, went farther than the authenticity of the petition, and extended to the laying before the house all the information with respect to America, which they could draw from a perfon fo thoroughly matter of the fubject as Mr. Penn, and not being at all difpofed that fuch matters fhould now be brought forward, they used every means to prevent or defeat the examination. They objected to the motion on the fubject of order; on its informality; on its want of precedent; being contrary to their eftablished mode of proceeding; that the bringing in of extraneous matter by furprize, and breaking in upon their moft ferious and important deliberations, by fuddenly calling their attention off to the examination of witneffes, and to new fubjects of difcuffion, would be destructive of that order and gravity which had always diftinguilhed their proceedings.

They alfo contended, that this measure would establish a moft pernicious piecedent, as it would ne ceffarily follow, that every petition, from whatever quarter of the globe, must be accompanied by the evidence to establish its authenticity. They obferved, that improper questions might be asked, and fuch anfwers drawn from Mr. Peno, as might tend to prejudice him with refpect to his private fortune and affairs in America; that his evidence might have the fame effect with respect to others, who were allo friends to government in America, and who by a public expo

fure of their private conduct in its favour, would be liable to personal danger, and ruin to their fortunes. They also infifted, that as the evidence, let it turn out as it may, would be only ex parte, the house could not found any refolution upon it; nor could it be prefumed, that the fingle teftimony of an individual, however refpectable the character may be, could at all influence their conduct or opinion, in queftions of fuch great national and political import. To prevent, however, every pretence for the enquiry, they offered to admit the authenticity of the petition without any proof.

On the other fide, they said, that the objections as to order were fo trifling, as to be unworthy of their time and attention; that the proposed examination was, however, fully fupportable upon that ground, as well as in point of precedent. They offered to tie themfelves down as to the questions to be put, and that the Lords, who oppofed the measure, fhould object to any which they did not approve. And they lamented, in the most pathetic terms, the difpofition which they faw in the houfe, to fhut out every fpecies of information relative to America, to continue to the laft in darkness, and to rufh headlong themselves, and plunge the nation along with them, into inevitable ruin and deftruction. That this was the more furprizing, and the more lamentable, as the fatal confequences which had already proceeded from a fimilar conduct, were fo fenfibly felt at this very inftant, as to convulfe the empire through all its parts.

The motion being rejected upon

a divi

a divifion, by a majority of 56 to 22, the noble mover, who is diftinguished for his perfeverance, made another, That Mr. Penn fhould be examined at the bar on the next day. Though the examination of a witnefs in this form, anconnected with any other matter, could not be refused, yet fo difagreeable was every enquiry of this nature, that a further debate arofe upon it; but it was at length reluctantly agreed to, that he fhould be examined on the 10th.

Several curious particu10th. lars relative to much controverted fubjects, came out upon the examination of this gentleman. He was perfonally acquainted with almost all the members of the Congrefs, had been Governor of the colony, and refided in the city, in which they affembled and held their deliberations, and had every opportunity, from of fice, family connection, locality of property, and an extenfive acquaintance, to obtain the fullest information of the fate of affairs in America, as well as of the temper and difpofition of the people. It was also evident, that his difcernment was equal to the forming a juft eftimate of things; and there could scarcely be a fufpicion of partiality, in favour of any meafure which could tend to American independency, as the great for tune of his family, if not wholly loft, must be much impaired by fuch an event, and their great powers and prerogatives certainly fubverted.

Among the remarkable parts of his teftimony, (which we must recollect, confifted only of anfwers to fach specific queftions as were propofed) was an abfolute negative

to the fuppofition or charge, that any defigns of independency had been formed by the Congress. He declared, that the members compofing that body had been fairly elected; that they were men of character, capable of conveying the fenfe of America; and that they had actually conveyed the fenfe of their conftituents. That the different provinces would be governed by their decifions in all events. That the war was levied and carried on by the colonists, merely in defence of what they thought their liberties. That the fpirit of refiftance was general, and they believed themselves able to defend their liberties against the arms of Great Britain.

That the colony of Penfylvania contained about 60,000 men able to carry arms. That of these, 20,000 had voluntarily enrolled themselves to ferve without pay, and were armed and embodied before the Governor's departure. Being questioned as to the nature of that volunteer force, he faid, that it included the men of best fortune and character in the province, and that it was generally compofed of men who were poffeffed of property, either landed or otherwife. That an additional body of 4,500 minute men had fince been raised in the province, who were to be paid when called out on fervice. That they had the means and materials of cafting iron cannon in great plenty. That they caft brafs cannon in Philadelphia. And that they made fmall arms in great abundance and perfection.

That the colonies had been diffatisfied with the reception of their former petitions; but that they

had

had founded great hopes upon the fuccefs of that which he brought over; that it was ftiled the Olive Branch; and that he had been congratulated by his friends upon his being the bearer of it. That it was greatly to be feared, that if conciliatory measures were not fpeedily purfued, they would form connections with foreign powers; and that if fuch connections were once formed, it would be found a matter of great difficulty to diffolve them. Being asked, "whether the people of the different provinces were now in a flate of freedom?" he faid, that they thought them felves fo; whether the most opulent inhabitants would not prefer freedom under this country to what they now enjoy?" he anfwered, that they would prefer it to any other ftate of freedom; and that notwithstanding their determination to fupport the measures of the Congrefs, they wished for a reconciliation with this country. He denied its being an object of the Congrefs to throw off the regulations of their trade; and acknowledged, that the moft thinking men in Philadelphia were of opinion, that a refufal of the prefent petition would be a bar to all reconcilement.

The other parts of the evidence related to the Stamp Act, the repeal, and the declaratory law. This gentleman was in America at that period, and declared that the first had occafioned great difcontent, uneafinefs, and diftrefs; that the repeal had given fuch abundant joy, that its anniverfary was celebrated as a day of mirth and festivity. That the Americans were fatisfied with their condition, notwithstanding the Decla

ratory Act; and that if Great Britain had left things in the state they then were, the Americans would have remained content. The questions relative to the degree of fubordination acknow ledged by the colonies, having been multiplied and clofely urged by a noble lord high in office, the witnefs declared, that he believed the colonies are inclined to acknowledge the imperial authority of Great Britain, but not in taxation.

It was observed with fome feverity of animadverfion, as a fingular circumftance in the present fituation of affairs, what appeared upon this examination, that neither the Secretary of State who received the petition, nor any other minister or perfon in authority, had; fince the arrival of the witness in England, propofed a fingle queftion to him, or defired the fmalleft information relative to the ftate of affairs in America, or to the difpofition or temper of the people, This cir cumftance was ufed to give counte nance to the charge fo often repeated by the oppofition, that a fyftem had been chalked out for adminiftration, which they were obliged blindly to pursue, and to act in it merely as' machines, without being at liberty to form an opinion as to juftice, eligibility, or confequence.

After the examination was finifhed, the Duke of Richmond, who had been its propofer, made a motion, That the petition from the Continental Congrefs to the King, was ground for a conciliation of the unhappy differences at prefent fubfifting between Great Britain and America. The motion was well introduced, and ably fup

ported

ported by the noble mover, and his friends. They ftated the neceffity of an immediate reconciliation in every point of view, whether with refpect to ourselves, the colonies, or our fituation in refpe&t to foreign powers. That nothing but carnage, defolation, an augmentation of expence, with a decrease of revenue, a weakness and debility growing in proportion to the urgent neceffity which would call for ftrength and exertion, with all the cruel and grievous calamities infeparable from civil difcord, would be the fruits obtained by a pertinaceous pursuit of the war.

They reprefented the unfurmountable difficulties which would occur, if an abfolute conqueft of America was intended; the natural ftrength of that continent, compofed alternately of ftrong inclofares, thick forefts, and deep fwamps, and every where inter. fected with vaft rivers. The immenfe difficulty and expence, if not utter impracticability, of fupplying fuch an army as would be adequate to the purpose, with fubfiftence from England, and the litthe profpect, if the obftinacy or perfeverance of the Americans continued, of providing it on the fpot. The advantages which the latter would derive from their being at home, and from having their fubfiftence at hand; from their perfect knowledge of the Country, whereby every ftrong ground, pafs, and defile, would be to them a' fortress, and every forest afford a fecure retreat. That the overrunning of a province, the feizing, plundering, or deftroying feveral of their towns, though ruinous to them, would afford no effential advantage to us, even confining the confideration merely VOL. XIX.

to the immediate object of the war, in the attainment of general conqueft. Our dominion would extend no farther than the immediate operation of our arms, and would ceafe with it. The inftant we marched to fubdue another province, that which we quitted would become at least as hoftile as that which we entered.

To a ftrong picture of difficul. ties, dangers, and difgrace, they contrafted the numberlefs bleffings of peace, and thewed the happy opportunity which the petition afforded of averting the numerous, and fome of them fatal evils, which had been defcribed. They faid, that if this opportunity were now loft, it could never be regained. That providence feemed with a peculiar kindnefs to put it in their way to refcue their country from ruin, without warring directly with their paffions or prejudices, as they might now defcend, without dif grace, or without wounding their pride, from thofe high ftilts of authority and dignity on which they were

unhappily mounted, and which rendered them blind to its intereft and fecurity.

They obferved, that as the idea of laying taxes on America, for the purpose of raifing a revenue, had been, in their difcourfes at least, repeatedly given up by the minif ters, the queftion of conciliation was much lefs complex, than when that doctrine had been maintained, both in principle, and in its molt extenfive confequences. That the great object now of difcuffion, was what Great Britain claimed, and what America was willing to accede to. The great remaining claim of the former, appears to be no more than what it ever was, a general fupreme and controuling [G]

power