Mr. AMERY: Sir Samuel Wilson has received no instructions other than those which I communicated to the House on March 27th. If the right hon. Member will read them, he will see that they cover the first part of his question. As regards the second part, it is obvious that any change in the basis of the franchise in Kenya could only come about by agreement, whatever Government were in power in this country.

Colonel WEDGWOOD: Do I understand, in the first place, that Mr. Sastri will be in the Colony at the same time as Sir Samuel Wilson, and, accordingly, will have an opportunity of meeting him? In the second place, do I understand the right hon. Gentleman to bind all Governments of this country never to alter the franchise in Kenya except with the consent of the three elements in the population?

Mr. AMERY: Mr. Sastri is going in order to lay the case of the Indian community before Sir Samuel Wilson and will certainly have occasion for meeting and consulting him. In regard to the second question, I am not binding any Government, but I think the obvious facts of the case bind them all.

Colonel WEDGWOOD: Are we to understand that the Government rule out of practical politics any question of modifying the franchise without the consent of the white settlers and the Indians and the natives, and, if so, does that apply to modifications desired by the natives or desired by the whites?

Mr. AMERY: No. The main basis-I am not discussing details-was laid down in the White Paper issued in the time of the Duke of Devonshire. In view of all the circumstances of the case, no one could suggest that the basis should be altered except by consent.

Colonel WEDGWOOD: The right hon. Gentleman's statement means, therefore, that no modification of the franchise in the direction desired by the natives or Indians will be brought about without the consent of the whites, but that modifications of the franchise in the interests of the whites might be brought about without the consent of the Indians or the natives?

Mr. AMERY: No. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman must not read more into my answer than I gave. I may remind him that the recent Commission did not suggest any change in the basis of the franchise except by consent.

Mr. SAKLATVALA: Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the existing communal franchise was introduced without the consent of all parties concerned and only under instructions from a microscopic minority of the inhabitants? Why did not he ask eyeryone's consent then?

HONG KONG (MUI-TSAI SYSTEM). 22nd April.

Mr. MALONE asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has yet received the Report on the mui-tsai question of Hong Kong; and whether it is proposed to publish this Report at an early date?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: My right hon. Friend has received a despatch

from the Governor of Hong Kong. A number of points in connection with the enforcement of the Ordinance passed in 1923 to abolish the system. require elucidation, and he is asking the Governor by telegraph for further information in writing. My right hon. Friend proposes, when his reply has been received, to lay papers before the House.

Mr. DAY asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any action is being taken by his Department to abolish the system of child adoption known as mui-tsai in Hong Kong; and can he give particulars?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: I have to refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend's reply to questions on this subject on the 4th of February last, and to the reply which I am giving to-day to a question by the hon. Member for Northampton (Mr. Malone). I would, however, repeat that the system of child adoption so far as it involved a restraint on personal freedom has been made illegal since 1923. My right hon. Friend is engaged, in concert with the Governor, in considering means to prevent evasions of the law.

Mr. DAY: Is it not a fact that the statement was made in this House in 1923 that mui-tsai was to be abolished altogether; and is it not also a fact that at the present time there are more cases than there were in 1923? Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: With regard to the first part of the question, legislation was passed abolishing mui-tsai, but, of course, it is a very difficult thing, where you have a large number of non-British subjects coming temporarily into Hong Kong from Canton and neighbouring provinces, to say whether or not they have got mui-tsai with them. It is estimated that since the ordinance was passed 300,000 Chinese subjects have come into Hong-Kong with a proportion of mui-tsai.

Colonel WEDGWOOD: Is it not a fact that the right hon. Gentleman communicated with the Governor of Hong Kong to find out why the law was not being enforced, and is the House not entitled to know the reasons which were given by the Governor why this law was not enforced?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: As far as it is practicable to enforce the law, steps are being taken to do so. It is proposed, as soon as the correspondence is complete, to lay papers, and I will give a further answer on that point.

Colonel WEDGWOOD: Can we be assured that papers will be laid? Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: Yes. As soon as the correspondence is complete and we see what we can do, papers will be laid.

Mr. DAY: In view of the fact that this is very serious, can the right hon. Gentleman say when he expects to be able to lay papers or when the correspondence will be completed?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: I cannot say off-hand. I think probably it means collecting a certain amount of further data as to the actual facts, apart from discussion of methods of law and order.

29th April.

Mr. BRIANT asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if the mui

tsai system has now been abolished in Hong Kong?

Mr. AMERY: I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to questions on this subject a week ago, in which it was made clear that the Hong Kong Ordinance of 1923 prohibited the employment of any fresh mui-tsai. The ordinance also contained a declaration correcting the erroneous view that the payment of money for a child under the Chinese custom of mui-tsai conveyed to the employer any proprietary right as against the child herself or against her parent or guardian.

UGANDA (NATIVES, RUANDA).

22nd April.

Sir R. THOMAS asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement regarding the situation created by the influx into Uganda of great numbers of famine-stricken natives from the Belgian mandated territory of Ruanda; whether the Government were taking any action in so far as Uganda is affected; and what degree of co-operation is there with the Belgian authorities in coping with the situation?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: My right hon. Friend has not yet received any Report from the Governor. He is, however, asking by telegraph for an early Report by despatch on the situation.

PALESTINE.

LIQUOR TRAFFIC AND CRIME.

22nd April.

Viscount SANDON asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any statistics as to liquor importation and consumption and crime resulting therefrom in Palestine for comparable periods since the British mandate and before the War?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: I regret that I am not in a position to supply comparative statistics as desired by the Noble Lord.

22nd April.

GOLD COAST (LIQUOR TRAFFIC). Viscount SANDON asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the experience of Mauritius in a similar situation will be taken into consideration in connection with the drink problem on the Gold Coast?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: The Governor of the Gold Coast has recently appointed a Commission, which is taking evidence of every factor relating to the sale of spirits in that Colony, and my right hon. Friend will bring my Noble Friend's suggestion to his notice. It must be remembered, however, that conditions are not the same in the two Colonies.

KENYA (HARRY THUKU).

22nd April.

Colonel WEDGWOOD asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has received a communication from the Kikuyu natives respecting the liberation of Harry Thuku; and, after the seven years' banishment of this man against whom no charge was ever proved, will he be allowed to return to his family?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: The case of Harry Thuku was referred to in a petition, of which my right hon. Friend has a copy, addressed by the Kikuyu Central Association to the Governor of Kenya. The Governor

proposes to discuss this matter with my right hon. Friend while he is in this country; but I do not anticipate that it will be possible to come to a decision until after his return to the Colony.

Colonel WEDGWOOD: Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind when this discussion takes place that the Harry Thuku trouble arose just at a time when they reduced wages by, I think, 50 per cent. ?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE: As the right hon. and gallant Gentleman knows, there are a good many factors. The whole question is connected with the settlement of various outstanding broader questions of policy, and that is why we cannot anticipate any final commitment in regard to this matter. KENYA (RAIDS, ABYSSINIAN SUBJECTS). 29th April.

Mr. DAY asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies the amount of money paid by the Abyssinian Government to the Kenya Government, for the years 1927 and 1928, as compensation for damage and thefts of stock by lawless tribes?

Mr. AMERY: As stated in the White Paper (Cmd. 3217) issued last year, the Abyssinian Government in March, 1928, agreed to pay the Government of Kenya 215,784 Maria Theresa dollars (approximately £21,578) as compensation for raids by Abyssinian subjects into Kenya territory. A first instalment of 150,000 dollars was paid in March, 1928, and a further instalment of 30,000 dollars in October, 1928.

CEYLON (EMPLOYMENT OF CHILDREN).

29th April. Mr. BRIANT asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if his attention has been called to the statement that many thousands of impoverished Ceylonese are persuaded to lend, and in some cases to sell, young sons and daughters to foreigners for heavy domestic work usually performed by adult household servants or farm hands; that boys and girls are forced to work from dawn until dark, with no intervals for food and under other conditions of cruelty and neglect, and in some cases there has been whipping for trivial disobedience ending fatally; and if at present there is any system for registration of children employed on estates or any official body to supervise their welfare or prevent abuses?

and

Mr. AMERY: My attention has been drawn to an article in a Ceylon newspaper containing allegations of ill-treatment of children employed under local custom in domestic service. The article clearly refers to service in Ceylonese households and not to service with European residents. The law of Ceylon includes Ordinances relating to the registration of domestic servants, and to the employment of women, young persons children, and there is full control and supervision of the employment of children on estates on which Indian immigrant labour is engaged. I can only assume that, if instances of cruelty have occurred, they have been isolated cases, the remedy for which is the creation of a stronger public opinion through the agency of unofficial societies such as exist in this country, as was indeed suggested by the writer of the article.

DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT.

IN the debate on Supply on April 30th, Mr. Amery gave the House a wide survey of events in the Crown Colonies during the last five years, which had, he said, been years of almost unbroken peace. He touched on many subjects, and yet others were raised by Members in the ensuing debate. The Secretary of State said that the process of development in the communities under the Colonial Office had been of a revolutionary character; they included peoples of every variety of race and religion who in most cases had no experience of self-government at all. The Government were endeavouring to build up a tradition of responsibility from the beginning, making use of any existing machinery as a nucleus: that was the principle which inspired the whole system of indirect rule, in Nigeria and in Tanganyika. In Uganda they had "something not far off a native parliament" in the Lukiko; in other places there was less foundation to build upon. He referred to the difficulty of the problem in Kenya, where it was "obviously out of the question" to hand over responsible selfgovernment to the white settlers "in any time that we are dealing with at this moment." Progress in the future must depend upon future development. No decision could be reached as the result of the Hilton Young Commission until it had been discussed and considered by the next Parliament. Sir Samuel Wilson had been sent out to discuss the problem in Kenya with every community concerned but had had no power to conclude any settlement himself.

The question of the New Hebrides under the Condominium was raised by Mr. Snell, who said that the regulations for recruitment of natives' labour and those limiting the sale of alcohol had been persistently and ruthlessly broken. Mr. Ormsby-Gore, in replying, said the Government had never regarded the Condominium as an altogether satisfactory form of government, but they were doing their best to work it loyally side by side with the French; it was not an easy problem. There had been cases in which the liquor laws had been evaded, and running of rum and other spirits had taken place.

Other questions interesting to our Society which were raised in the course of the Debate were those of Girl Slavery in Hong Kong, and the slave traffic in the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. Commander Kenworthy thought that more active steps should be taken to deal with slave trading by sea, especially in the Red Sea, through French and Italian, and in some cases through British, Somaliland. Mr. Ormsby-Gore said the Government had absolutely no rumour or knowledge in the Colonial Office of any such traffic; they had every reason to suppose that the Red Sea patrols, Italian, French and British, had done much to suppress the trade. The Under-Secretary also spoke about the liquor traffic in West Africa and admitted that the consumption on the Gold Coast had been increasing too much. The Gold Coast, with about three millions population, imported nearly twice the amount of spirits imported by Nigeria with eighteen