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Senator GOODING. And the result is if there is a continuation of this cutthroat competition that there will be of necessity a reduction of wages? Do you not fear that?

Mr. PEALE. I imagine that constant competition that forces down the prices would naturally force down wages.

Senator Gooding. Do you not believe that the American people are always willing to give to everybody, to the man with capital or the man who works with his two fists a fair living wage and a fair percentage, a fair return on his investment?

Mr. PEALE. Yes; I believe they are, Senator. All they need to know is what that is, and they are willing to pay it.

Senator GOODING. Well, that is pretty hard to reach, is it not, when we have the conditions that exist at the present time in the coal industry?

Mr. PEALE. It is.
Senator Gooding. There is no way for you to get together?

Mr. Peale. There is no way really to get together. I do not know much about the legal side of it, the legislation, but I presume we could not get together.

Senator Gooding. What has been the increased cost in the production of a ton of coal since 1917 ?

Mr. PEALE. The increase ?

Senator GOODING. Yes; taking into consideration your increase in freight rates, which enter into everything that you buy that goes to your mine, and that the miner buys for his home; enters entirely into every avenue of life?

Mr. PEALE. Senator, I can not give you that except in this way: I am not prepared to answer it specifically, but applying to coal from our district, my recollection is that in 1913 the records of the Interior Department showed the average price was about $1.15 a ton at the mine. And taking that same district to-day I should think the average price would be--well I do not know I would be afraid to say-maybe $2.25, but it is selling at different prices. I should think $2.25 would be somewhere near the average. That is the only way I can answer the question.

Senator GOODING. Mr. Peale, I hope you will give this matter serious thought, because I am sure the committee will want to consult with you in making recommendations back to the Senate on legislation, which the committee hopes to do. Mr. PEALE. I will. Senator GOODING. Thank you. Senator WHEELER. Do you want to hear another witness?

Senator GOODING (presiding). I think we had better adjourn at this time. The committee will now stand adjourned until 10.15 in the morning at this room.

(Thereupon, at 4.20 p. m. Friday, March 9, 1928, an adjournment was taken until 10.15 a. m. the next day, Saturday, March 10, 1928.)

CONDITIONS IN THE COAL FIELDS OF PENNSYLVANIA,

WEST VIRGINIA, AND OHIO

SATURDAY, MARCH 10, 1928

UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE COMMERCE,

Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.15 o'clock a. m., in room 212, Senate Office Building, Senator Frank R. Gooding presiding.

Present: Senators Gooding (presiding), Couzens, Fess, Pine, and Wheeler.

Senator GOODING. The committee will please be in order. Mr. Searles, I understand you will be the first witness. Will you stand up and be sworn, please.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN W. SEARLES, PRESIDENT OF THE PENNSYLVANIA COAL & COKE CORPORATION, NEW YORK CITY

(The witness was sworn by Senator Gooding.) Senator GOODING. Mr. Searles, please give the reporter your name and address and state whom you represent.

Mr. SEARLES. John W. Searles; office, New York; residence, West Orange, N. J.; president of the Pennsylvania Coal & Coke Corporation.

Senator GOODING. Have you any statement that you want to make?

Mr. SEARLES. No, sir. Senator Gooding. You may proceed, Mr. Eaton. Mr. Eaton. Mr. Searles, the Pennsylvania Coal & Coke Co., of which you are the president, leases its lands from the Clearfield bituminous?

Mr. SEARLES. Some of them. Mr. Eaton. What portions of its lands does it lease from the Clearfield bituminous ?

Mr. SEARLES. We have in the neighborhood of 35,000 acres under lease from the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation and own in fee or lease from others some 9,000 acres.

Mr. Eaton. So that the amount of acreage you get indirectly from the New York Central is about four to one.

Mr. SEARLES. Yes; I guess that is correct.

Mr. Eaton. What is the average production of your mines, we will say, for the years 1923 down?

Mr. SEARLES. About 2,500,000 tons.

Mr. Eaton. What is the royalty basis upon which you lease your lands? What do you pay, generally speaking, to the Clearfield bituminous ?

Mr. SEARLES. The Clearfield?
Mr. EATON. Yes.
Mr. SEARLES. Ten cents per ton.

Mr. EATON. Have you sold any coal to the New York Central from the year 1919 to the year 1927?

Mr. SEARLES. In some of those years, yes; perhaps in all. I have a statement here.

Mr. Eaton. You have a statement with the prices in it?
Mr. SEARLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. Eaton. And the amounts that you sold to the New York Central?

Mr. SEARLES. Yes, sir.

Mr. Eaton. Did your sales include any coal sold to any other railroads?

Mr. SEARLES. Oh, yes.
Mr. Eaton. Do you have that, also, set out?
Mr. SEARLES. Yes.

Mr. EATON. Will you be good enough to hand it to the reporter to be marked for identification?

Mr. SEARLES. Yes, sir.

(The document referred to is marked "For identification, Searle's No. 1," and is as follows:)

SEARLES No. 1

PENNSYLVANIA COAL & COKE CORPORATION-COAL SOLD TO RAILROADS, 1919–1927

We have endeavored, as far as possible, in the short time allowed for the work to eliminate confiscated coal from these figures (except Pennsylvania Railroad and New York Central, which is included in their statements). For other confiscated coal in substantial volume, see Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad Co. (statement A, attached), New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. (statement B, attached), Lehigh Valley Railroad Co. (statement D, attached), and Philadelphia & Reading Co. (statement E, attached) Coal supplied by Pennsylvania Coal & Coke Corporation and prices receired Coal supplied by Pennsylvania Coal & Coke Corporation and prices received

therefor PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD

Price per

Price pe!

Year

Net tons

Year

Net tons

net ton

Det ton

3,991. 08

962. 12
4,954.00

$2.950
3. 000

1924.
1924.
1924.
1924.
1924.

7, 316. 13 20, 789. 15

9, 402. 14 12, 515,00 26, 557. 19

$1. 850 1.950 2 100 2 30 2 500

2. 958

Total.
Average.

76,582. 01

3. 035
3. 158
3. 250
3. 210
4. 900

2 191

1,751.00 3, 293.00 3,398.00 2, 058.00

629.95
11, 129.95

1925, total..
1925, average.

115, 363. 16

1919. 1919.

Total.

Average 1920. 1920. 1920. 1920. 1920.

Total.

Average 1921 1922 1922 1922.

Total.

Average. 1923 1923 1923.

1.800

3. 275

1926 1926. 1926.

126, 745. 16

7, 235.06 42, 088. 19

1.850 2 100 2 310

None. 6, 145, 15 29, 810. 12

9, 453. 17
45, 410.04

None.
3. 250
4. 500
4. 554

Total
Average

176, 070.01

2016

13, 173.03
35, 677. 08
47, 042. 12

4. 341

1927 2. 400 i 1927 2. 500 1927 3. 250

1927

15, 371. 06
28, 768, 09
8,316. 18
4,732. 11

1.200 2 1.50 2 3.50 2 500

Total..
Average.

95, 893.03

Total.
Average.

57, 189.04

2. 855

2141

therefor-Continued

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