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concern.

Mr. Eaton. To what extent has such leasing by the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation occurred ?

Mr. HERRIMAN. How do you mean? Do you mean as to lands?

Mr. Eaton. Have you leased coal lands to more than going concern-more than one going mining concern,

I mean? Mr. HERRIMAN. Yes, sir; we have. The principal lessee is the

; Pennsylvania Coal & Coke Corporation.

Mr. EATON. It leases from the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation how many acres?

Mr. HERRIMAN. I should say about—well, now, let me see
Mr. Eaton. Just state it to us approximately, that will do.

Mr. HERRIMAN. About 36,000 or 37,000 acres; that is, for all of the going concerns; the improvements and property used by the going

Mr. EATON. Are there any others that lease from the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation?

Mr. HERRIMAN. Yes, sir; we have a number of smaller leases. Would you like to know their names. If so, I could give you a list of them.

Mr. EATON. We should be very glad to have such a list.
Mr. HERRIMAN. We will give you a list of those leases.
Mr. Eaton. And the amount of acreage comprised in them.
Mr. HERRIMAN. All right.

Mr. Eaton. If it is only an approximate statement it will be all right. I do not care for it exactly.

Mr. HERRIMAN. We can give it to you exactly, if the Senate committee desires it.

Senator GOODING (presiding). All right, if you will furnish that information.

Mr. HERRIMAN. Very well; we will do so.

Mr. Eaton. Now then, Mr. Herriman, as to all these leasing operations in so far as there is revenue accruing from them, it goes through the books of the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation?

Mr. HERRIMAN. It comes to us, yes, sir; to the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation.

Mr. Eaton. And in computing your costs, which you gave to the committee yesterday, did you take into considertaion any of those revenues, or were those excluded from your figures?

Mr. HERRIMAN. They are all excluded there, and very properly, in my opinion. They do not belong in the cost there according to my view.

Mr. EATON. They do not belong there at all, do you say?
Mr. HERRIMAN. I do not think that would be good bookkeeping;

sir.
Mr. Eaton. But that belongs to the same company?
Mr. HERRIMAN. I do not quite get your inquiry?

Mr. Eaton. All those business transactions are run by the same officials that run the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation, are they not?

Mr. HERRIMAN. Yes, sir; we have an entire staff you understand of accounting and in the treasury department, and everything that comes in comes to us. It is handled just as any other business concern would handle it.

no,

cost.

Mr. Eaton. Then in computing the costs which you gave us on yesterday, in the period when there was a unionization of the mines, do I understand that you included all your overhead of the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation and charged it against the coal that went to the New York Central.

Mr. HERRIMAN. No, sir; I undertook to state briefly what we had included in that cost. For instance, the first item is labor

Mr. EATON (interposing). Yes, sir.
Mr. HERRIMAN. And the second item includes our supplies.
Mr. EATON. Yes, sir.

Mr. HERRIMAN. Power and supplies, for instance. Then our fixed charges—we use that term—and here is what it comprises: Royalties paid, depletion and depreciation, taxes, general insurance, and accident compensation. Those are the three groups that make up the

Mr. Eaton. Now, your depletion charge, I suppose, is based upon the 1913 values, is it?

Mr. HERRIMAN. Well, I suppose it is. That is carried out by our comptroller and bookkeepers under the guidance of these people here in Washington. I would not like to say anything further about that.

Mr. Eatox. But it does not represent the actual cost; it is far in excess of the actual cost.

Mr. HERRIMAN. I would not like to say that. I do not know about that.

Mr. Eaton. You would not undertake to say that that is the cost item, Mr. Herriman?

Mr. HERRIMAN. Well, I should rather say that I do not know, because, frankly, I do not, and would not until I looked it up. It can be easily ascertained. I did not bring our whole bookkeeping system over here, for I did not know what questions would be propounded to me.

Mr. Eaton. Now, then, have you a table showing the average price received by the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation from 1919 down to 1927, inclusive?

Mr. HERRIMAN. Yes, sir. That was what was in this telegraphic subpæna, Mr. Chairman, that I received. You are familiar with its contents, Senator Gooding, I take it.

Senator GOODING (presiding). Yes.
Mr. HERRIMAN. Shall I leave this with you—this statement?
Mr. EATON. I should like to see it, if I may.

Mr. HERRIMAN. I will pass it to our counsel and he will hand it to you.

Mr. EATON. All right; thank you. Mr. HERRIMAN. Here is the statement. (Mr. Eaton made a brief cursory examination of the statement and

nation then asked :)

Mr. Eaton. Mr. Chairman, may we have this paper marked for identification ?

Senator GOODING (presiding). That may be done by the official reporter.

(Whereupon the official reporter marked the said statement "Herriman No. 1 for identification, and it is here made a part of the record, as follows:)

Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation-Coal tonnage sold to the New York

Central Railroad Co. and sale receipts for years 1919 to 1927, both inclusive

[blocks in formation]

Recapitulation of coal tonnage sold for years 1919 to 1927, inclusive (net tons of 2,000 pounds). The Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation mines and ships for New York Central Railroad Co. supply only, therefore all coal sold is for railroad use. (See attached statements for monthly records.)

Year

Tonnage

Average
sales
price

Revenue

1919. 1920 1921. 1922 1923 1924. 1925 1926. 1927

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1, 188, 309.58
1, 199, 856.00
1, 395, 669. 50
1, 107,023. 35
1,776, 945. 76
1, 584,577. 15
1, 341, 766.80
1, 726, 939. 65

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$2.55
3. 44
3.04
3. 19
2. 78
2. 28
2. 23
2. 13
2. 33

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$3,032,798 59 4, 131, 571. 17 4, 248, 404.87 3, 530, 138. 64 4, 931, 527.97 3,618, 675.8 2,994, 817.75 3,671, 480. 20 2, 286, 151.67

[ocr errors][merged small]

981, 448. 40

12, 302, 536. 19

2. 64

32, 445, 566. 71

Month

Tonnage

Sales
price

Revenue

Month

Tonnage

Sales
price

Revenue

1919

1921

January
February
March.
April
May.
June
July
August
September
October
November..
December..

$116, 156. 55

60, 023. 70
118, 896. 60
101, 939. 15
129, 225. 85
119, 805, 25
123, 845. 03
120, 726. 35
107, 790. 90
125, 768.35
14, 338. 95
49, 792. 90

$2.88
2. 88
2. 88
2. 43
2. 43
2. 43
2. 43
2. 43
2. 43
2, 43
2. 43
2. 68

$334, 532. 33

172, 868. 27 342, 422. 21 247, 683. 69 314, 018. 83 291, 126.75 300, 943. 71 293, 365. 19 261, 931. 89 305, 617. 09

34, 843. 65
133, 444. 98

January
February
March
April.
May
June
July
August
September
October
November
December..

$90, 531. 85
83, 183. 50
38, 407.00
91, 891. 60
133, 286. 55
118,877.00
119, 713. 65
148, 123. 60
133, 069.00
154, 910. 65
134, 812. 95
148, 862. 15

$3.68
3. 68
3. 68
2. 93
2.93
2.93
2. 93
2.93
2. 93
2.93
2. 93
2. 93

$333, 157.21
306, 116 2
141, 337. 78
269, 242 29
390, 529. 59
348, 309.61
350, 760.99
434, 003. 62
389, 892 13
453,888 21
395, 001. 94
436, 166. 10

Total. - 1, 188, 309. 58

3,032, 798. 59

Total.. 1,395, 669. 50

4, 248, 404.67

1920

1922

2. 68
2. 68
2, 68
3. 00

395,650.65
431,321. 3
184,300 14
76,003 31
1,512.74

January

114, 656. 05 February

96, 201, 80 March.

107, 651.35 April.

109, 909. 45 May.

109, 049.35 June

107, 559. 70 July.

111, 748.00 August

106, 177. 35 September 89, 482, 95 October

97, 739, 25 November 43, 701. 15 December 105, 979. 60

Total.. 1, 199, 856.00

3. 43
3. 43
3. 43
3. 43
3. 68
3. 68
3. 68
3. 68

307, 278. 21
257, 820.83
288, 505, 62
329, 728. 35

42, 101. 49
374, 039. 27
368, 912. 61
383, 295. 64
364, 188. 30
342, 907. 25
359, 680.44
323, 108. 23
390, 004. 93

January.
February
March
April
May
June
August
September.

Do.
October

Do.
November
December...

135, 034. 35
147, 208.75
165, 490. 65
25, 940. 45

518.00

103.85 38, 031.85 61,838. 45 77, 971. 10 74, 744. 80 79, 147.80 153, 570. 10 147, 423. 20

2. 93 2. 93

93 2. 93 2.93 2. 93 4.00 3. 50 4. 00 3. 15 3,50 3. 15 3. 15

152, 127. 40 216, 434, 5; 311.884. 90 235, 446 12 277, 017. 30 483.745.82 464.383.08

4, 131, 571. 17

Total. 1, 107, 023. 35

3, 530, 138 64

[blocks in formation]
[blocks in formation]

$6,755.60 $2. 401
70, 815. 15 2. 238

56. 35 2. 238
57, 356, 55 2, 282
12, 402. 50 2. 282
61, 054. 05 2. 380
82, 584. 05 2. 210
6, 668. 45

2. 210 97, 735. 90 2. 148

7, 278. 85 2. 148 140, 580. 25 2. 078

10, 378. 30 2. 078 134, 035. 95 2. 182

6, 014. 65 2. 182 139, 243. 50 2. 198

May

Do.
June

Do.
July

Do.
August.
September

Do.
October

Do.
November

Do.
December

Do..

$543, 551. 72
462, 892. 82
512, 360, 10
340, 843. 66
43, 437. 55

668. 17

945. 67 394, 939, 47

856. 26 380, 812. 69

783. 65 384, 474. 43

821.87 376, 906. 49

638, 68 320, 473, 52

872. 48 391, 090,33

833. 06 375, 930. 36

833. 60 396, 561. 39

Do.. June.

Do. July.

Do. August.

Do. September

Do.. October..

Do.. November

Do... December...

Do......

$16, 220.20
158, 484. 30

126. 11
130, 887.65

28, 302. 50 145, 308. 64 182, 510. 95

14, 737. 27 209,936. 71

15. 634. 97 292, 125. 76

21, 566. 11 292, 466. 44

13, 123. 96 306, 057. 21

2, 994, 817. 75

Total..

1, 341, 766, 80

1926

4, 931, 527.97

[blocks in formation]

January

Do..
February

Do...
March.

Do.
April

Do..
May

Do.
June.

Do.
July

Do.
August

Do..
September.

Do.
October.

Do.
November.

Do
December

Do..

11. 580. 80 152, 591. 40 142,953. 15

3, 877. 10 165, 881. 50

3, 404. 40 127, 930. 35 12, 723. 85

5, 583. 00 88, 062. 05

9, 197. 85 107, 212, 75

10, 512.90 132, 221. 75

8, 294. 50 120, 728. 55

9, 629.25 147, 498. 90

9, 438. SO 154, 652. 85

4,996. 90 137, 783. 65

7,684, 65 152, 499. 50

1, 123. 12 411,851. 42

1,056.78 388, 544. 10

964. 65 459, 230.09

2, 510. 62 220, 092. 37

95, 688. 65
156, 806.30

240.64
356. 25

25. 78
187, 442. 40

42. 50 366. 66

413. 70 197,074. 10

405.51 233, 969.00 254, 996. 52 300, 086. 18

23, 929, 38 311, 397. 10

22, 440. 55 338, 209, 28

9, 412. 20

.48

[blocks in formation]

2. 15
2. 15
2. 00
2. 25
2. 10

. 10
2. 00
1.00
2. 10
2. 10
2.00
2. 10
2. 00
2. 201
2. 216
2. 201
2. 239
2. 216
2. 243
2. 239

3, 671, 480. 20

1, 726, 939, 65

1927

3,618, 675. 85

[blocks in formation]

Total._ 1, 584, 577. 15

21, 269. 48 331, 339, 75

18, 631. 76 290, 256. 61 492, 770.91 151,320. 96

14. 763. 81 235, 508. 42 204, 321. 80

3, 795. 01

1, 486. 61 40, 210.97 84. 202. 50 155, 016, 57 238, 256, 51

1925

[blocks in formation]

329, 401.81

20, 721, 58 306, 620. 05

19, 410. 31 285, 019. 92 15, 667. 56

117, 01 190, 370. 73

2, 286, 151. 67

[blocks in formation]

Mr. EATON. This list that you have given us shows the average price actually received by the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation for coal for the years 1919 to 1927, inclusive.

Mr. HERRIMAN. Yes, sir. You will see that it is made up by months for the entire period.

Mr. EATON. Mr. Herriman, did you hear the statement that Mr. John L. Lewis made here?

Mr. HERRIMAX. I did, sir.

Mr. EATON. Did you hear the reading of a certain newspaper announcement made as of March 11, 1927, which contained some reference to Mr. Frank E. Herriman, president of the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation?

Mr. HERRIMAN. I did.
Mr. EATON. That was said to have been made on March 11, 1927?
Mr. HERRIMAN. I rather think that is the correct date. At any

rate was rat. Abtraha on that day that

Mr. Eaton. Did you know of that statement having been issued at that time?

Mr. HERRIMAN. I have been searching my mind about that. I know that there was some discussion about putting out a statement, but as to its details or whether it was done or not, I do not know, and did not know of it until I saw it in the newspapers myself.

Mr. Eaton. If you were to reread it, would it perhaps refresh your recollection as to whether or not you perchance might have dictated that statement?

Mr. HERRIMAN. I can tell you right now, without reading it, that I did not dictate that statement or any other statement of a similar character at any time.

Mr. Eaton. İt did, however, go out according to your recollection at about that time?

Mr. HERRIMAN. Well, I read it in the newspapers, and possibly you did, too.

Mr. EATOx. Was not the idea back of it, sir, that the New York Central was already doubtful of allowing a unionization of the mines with which they did business to continue?

Mr. HERRIMAX. Just the contrary. Now, I am very glad of the opportunity, if I may be permitted, Mr. Chairman, to explain it.

Mr. Eaton. We shall be glad to have you do it.

Senator GOODING (presiding). Go ahead and make any explanation you wish about it.

Mr. HERRIMAX. A meeting was called at Altoona of the executive committee of the coal operators of central Pennsylvania, of which our vice president, Mr. Musser, is a member. I looked upon that as an important meeting, and I went up there myself, as I thought ought to do; I went there because the United Mine Workers of America had, after the Miami convention, given the outlying districts an opportunity to continue work under the Jacksonville scale pending the making of an agreement. I went there because I wanted to use such influence as I have, modest though it may be to see that those young men, if I could induce them to do so, accepted that arrangement and continued to work with the hope of making an agreement with our United Mine Worker friends. That was the situation and Mr. Lewis unwittingly misunderstood it.

Mr. Eaton. The New York Central, through its subsidiary the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Corporation, practically dominates that coal territory, does it not?

Mr. HERRIMAN. It does not.
Mr. Eaton. Your company kept its contract.
Mr. HERRIMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Eaton. But the same is not true of about 50 other companies in your district?

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