Operating mines, Pittsburgh district, February, 1928-Continued

Senator WHEELER. Where is the central Pennsylvania district? Mr. MORROW. It is this up here. The Indiana field is shown through here. And the Somerset field is here.

Senator WHEELER. Is this district in the same shape?

Mr. MORROW. Except this territory through here, which has not been unionized at any time.

Senator WAGNER. That is close to West Virginia?

Mr. MORROW. Yes, sir.

Senator WAGNER. What is that section?

Mr. MORROW. Connellsville, Greensburg, and Irwin fields, and the West Virginia district continues right on down below in this direction.

Senator WHEELER. What mining companies are paying the union scale or check-off?

'Paying check off.

Mr. MORROW. So far as I know there are two, the MagnoliaSpringer mine and the Chalfont mine.

Senator WHEELER. How many men do they employ?

Mr. MORROW. I think those mines produce from 300 to 350 tons. Senator WHEELER. Where do they sell their coal?

Mr. MORROW. This company sells about one-half of its coal to a tin-plate mill near the mine, and pays no freight, as the tin-plate company sends its engine down and gets the coal. The balance of it is sold locally.

Senator WHEELER. As I understand it Mr. Baker represents the Pittsburgh Terminal Coal Co.

Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.

Senator WHEELER. And you, Mr. Morrow, represent the Pittsburgh Coal Co.?

Mr. MORROW. Yes, sir. They are the two largest operating companies here.

Senator WHEELER. Are they both or either one of them owned by (the Pennsylvania Railroad Co.?

Mr. MORROW. No, sir.

Senator GOODING. Gentlemen, the subcommittee thought it the part of wisdom, so long as we are here to view and investigate the strike conditions, to take Mr. Murray, representing the United Mine Workers and first cover the field as much as possible with him, get their side of the story; and then, when we get through with them, we want to take you and Mr. Baker, or anyone you may send along, and go out and get your view of the situation. But we will start with Mr. Murray and Mr. Fagan this morning as soon as we can get away from the hotel; we had hoped to get away at 10 o'clock, but the train reached Pittsburgh 45 minutes later than I had understood it was scheduled to arrive, and so we may be a few minutes later leaving than we had planned.

Mr. MORROW. Will you let me ask you a question or two about what you wish to cover with the miners; is it your idea that you want to see their barracks?

Senator GOODING. Yes; we want to go over all that ground.

Mr. MORROW. And you want to go with them first and look over those matters?

Senator GoODING. Yes.

Mr. MORROW. In most cases outside of this field here [pointing on map] there are no barracks. Right here there are a few barracks, and some here, and some there, and a few out there [indicating on map].

Senator GOODING. We will be guided by Mr. Murray on the first trip as to the mines we will visit and that they are interested in, and then we will be guided by you and Mr. Baker when we go with you gentlemen.

Mr. MORROW. They are interested in all of these mines, of course [indicating on map], because they hope to get them all back under the United Mine Workers. We will vouch that they will not, or at least it is not our intention that they will go back under the union again at any rate.

But as to your proposed visit to-day, here is a point of difficulty, and I will be quite frank with the subcommittee: We do not wish

the executives of the United Mine Workers on our properties, or in our mines, or about our mining towns. It is our disposition not to have anything more to do with them. And we have said to the nonunion miners that we will have no further dealings with the union. If we appeared there with them, or allowed our executives to be seen in or around the coal properties or coal mines in company with the executives of the United Mine Workers, the nonunion miners would feel that something was going on between our company and the United Mine Workers, and it would naturally arouse some doubt in their minds, which we wish to avoid. As you go about with Mr. Murray you will probably be around some of our mines, and while visiting the properties your subcommittee might wish to save time by looking over our mining towns and properties, and we should be very glad to have you do so; but we will arrange with our mine officials to go about with you, and if you will be good enough to ask the representatives of the United Mine Workers who accompany you to remain with the automobiles and not try to go around our properties, I shall be glad.

Senator WHEELER. Well, now, Mr. Morrow, so far as I am concerned I certainly would not want to take the position of telling the representatives of the United Mine Workers who have been invited to accompany us to-day, that they should not go with us.

Senator GOODING (chairman of the subcommittee). Mr. Morrow I want to very frankly tell you that I think you should make an exception so long as the representatives of the United Mine Workers are with our subcommittee. We will, however, when we reach your superintendent and go over your mines, if that is the wish of the subcommittee, ask Mr. Murray to step aside. We could do that probably, but we will want to keep Mr. Murray, while he is with us, as close as we can. But, I take it, that it is unnecessary to bring him into contact with your superintendent.

Mr. BAKER. Well, we do not want them on our property or in our mining towns at all.

Senator WHEELER. As I view it, the position of this subcommittee is just this; That when we go with you we will expect to try to view whatever you wish to show us, within our limited time-and, at the same time, of viewing anything else that we think of interest--but I doubt whether you would want to go into their barracks? Mr. BAKER. We do not want to do that.

Senator WAGNER. May I present this view of that situation? We are out to view this situation and to get all the information we can. These men are complaining, and will complain more to the entire committee, as to conditions here, and we are going to make some observations on this observation tour for the purpose of ascertaining whether they have exaggerated things or not. Should not they be in a position to show us exactly what they are complaining about? If we relied upon your superintendent, he would, as doubtless I would if I were in his position, give us your view of the situation and show us the things that he wishes us to see. But do you intend to take the position that the other side has no right to show us what they want us to see?

Mr. MORROW. They need not be on our properties.

Senator GOODING. Oh, now, Mr. Morrow, this subcommittee must have a free hand and use its own judgment as to viewing this situation and the properties that we visit. But I think that we can agree

that when we call on the superintendent of a mine at the mining company's office that we will ask Mr. Murray to step aside. But there is no reason, so far as I can see, why we should not give the representatives of the United Mine Workers an opportunity to show us those things of which they complain so that we may view and, as far as possible, understand their standpoint, just as we will do when we visit mines with you, to the end that we may be able to carry out the instructions of the full committee and be able to make a proper report to the full committee on our return to Washington.

Senator WAGNER. So long as they do not do any picketing or anything

Mr. MORROW (interposing). Oh, no; we would not want any picketing.

Senator GOODING. When the subcommittee makes a trip to any one of these mines I think it would be well for us to cover as many points and see as many things as we can while we are together.

Senator WHEELER. But the position that I understand these representatives of the coal operators to take is, that they do not want, when we go on the company's grounds, or into the mining camps, that they do not want Mr. Murray to go along. It seems to me that this subcommittee must have a free hand to do what the members think right and proper in order that we may carry out the instructions of the full committee and be in a position to make a full and complete report to the full committee upon our return to Washington.

Mr. MORROW. We don't want them on our properties.

Senator GOODING. Oh, now, gentlemen, you must make an exception so far as Mr. Murray is concerned. We are proposing to start out this morning with Mr. Murray, in order to give him an opportunity to point out and have us view those things of which he and his people complain and on further reflection, as we have been discussing the matter here, it seems to me that he would not be given that fair opportunity to show us those things he wishes us to see unless he can go along with us.

Mr. MORROW. But remember here is what you are doing: Suppose you had on your ranch out in Idaho, Mr. Chairman, a theoretical strike, and that is what I would term it, that you had a strike on your hands, theoretically speaking at least, and some of those people were staying outside of your ranch property, and somebody went to your ranch to investigate that property, do you think it would be the proper procedure to have those disgruntled employees to inspect your ranch property?

Senator GOODING. Oh, well, now, gentlemen, we are here representing the Senate of the United States. We have been instructed by the Committee on Interstate Commerce of the Senate to come here and view the conditions existing in this coal field, and we will give you the same opportunity that these mine workers are given. We are here with open minds, in an endeavor to get all the information we can, and to view this situation from an impartial standpoint, but the members of this subcommittee must not be left in the position that they have not been given an opportunity to view those things that they think they should, in the limited time we have, be given an opportunity to view.

Mr. BAKER. Well, won't you see the things that are off our property first? And we are perfectly willing that you should go on our properties and see everything there, but I can not see any reason in the