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Senator WHEELER. And where his own injunction applies?

Mr. MURRAY. Yes; where his own injunction applies. These are records that have been taken from the recorder's office in Indiana County, and which in due course of time will be presented to your committee.

Our public highways in Pennsylvania are policed by not only these coal and iron forces but by members of the State constabulary as well. If strangers happen to be walking the public highway the State police stop them. They ask where they are going, what is their business, whom they expect to visit, what they expect to do when they get there.

Mr. James Dewey, who is mediator and conciliator for the Department of Labor, and Mr. Sheetz who, I also understand, represents the Department of Labor at Washington as mediator and conciliator, and Mr. Lewis Hines, of Philadelphia, a representative of the Pennsylvania State department of labor, in the course of the investigation of the strike situation in the Pittsburgh district, were stopped in the public highway by four State policemen and told that under no circumstances would they be permitted to go beyond a certain boundary line. Reports in due form were submitted by these agents to the Government, to the Secretary of the Department of Labor at Washington, and also to the Secretary of the Department of Labor and Industry in Pennsylvania.

The CHAIRMAN. Did those State police know who these gentlemen were when they stopped them?

Mr. MURRAY. No.

The CHAIRMAN. And did these gentlemen inform the policemen as to who they were?

Mr. MURRAY. They did not inform the policemen who stopped them. They did not believe that it was necessary that policemen should have that information. They told the policemen that they did not expect to interfere with it or have anything to do with the strike, that they were American citizens, that they were using the public highway, and had committed no wrong, and did not expect to violate any law.

But in order to satisfy the agents of our Federal and State Governments that this system prevailed, I suggested that these gentlemen make a visit to a mining camp of the Pittsburgh Coal Co. at Library, where they would find that this very condition prevailed, They went, and they discovered it, and submitted reports to the heads of their several departments.

This is merely a prima facie case that we are making here to-day, in that it is more a general statement of conditions as they prevail over in Pennsylvania. No doubt during the course of the investigation these will be augmented by direct proof of facts, giving names, incidents, dates, etc., by our representatives from the States of Ohio, West Virginia, and western and central Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania has within its confines some 365,000 coal miers, being the largest coal-mining State we have in the Nation.

The CHAIRMAN. This all has reference to bituminous coal?

Mr. MURRAY. One hundred and sixty-five thousand being engaged in the anthracite-coal industry in the southeastern part of the State.

The depressing effect of the strike condition, due to the policy of the railroads and the Pittsburgh Coal Co., is far-reaching, in that it gets into the lives of the anthracite-mine workers just the same as it does the bituminous miners, who see it and feel it.

Approximately 20 per cent of Pennsylvania's population is made up of coal miners, their wives, and families. So that, in so far as Pennsylvania goes, it is the biggest thing of its kind that the State of Pennsylvania or any other States has

ever been required to meet. Prior to the incumbency of Governor Fisher, we had no particular troubles of magnitude in the State. During the reign of former Governor Pinchot, the conduct, character, and reputation of each coal-and-iron policeman was looked into and investigated before he was given employment. Unfortunately

Senator WHEELER (interposing). Mr. Fisher was Mr. Mellon's candidate for governor, was he not?

Mr. MURRAY. I understand that he was. Unfortunately, when Governor Fisher became governor of our Commonwealth he was associated in an official way with the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Co., being one of its vice presidents, a director, and chief counsel.

The CHAIRMAN. Has that any relation to the Pittsburgh Coal Co.?

Mr. MURRAY. No; I do not say that it has, except that it is connected with the general mining situation throughout the State.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. MURRAY. And the impression that it has created in the minds of our people is that Governor Fisher's connection with strikebreaking companies in the State, has made his government more or less sympathetic with the policies of all strike-breaking companies in the State.

The CHAIRMAN. Had there been any trouble in this mine while he was connected with the company?

Mr. MURRAY. No.
The CHAIRMAN. Before he was elected governor?

Mr. MURRAY. No; not before he was elected governor, but since he has been elected governor his coal company secured the famous Langham injunction.

Senator WHEELER. His company did?

Mr. MURRAY. Yes, sir; the Clearfield Bituminous Coal Co., a subsidiary of the New York Central Railroad Co. They secured the famous Langham injunction.

Senator BLACK. Do they have a coal operators' association in the State to which all belong?

Mr. MURRAY. They have a coal operators' association in the central part of the State to which all belong, known as the Central Pennsylvania Coal Operators' Association.

I have carried this information, or at least a portion of it to Governor Fisher. Shortly after Governor Fisher became the governor of our Commonwealth, we called upon him, and explained to him our desire and our willingness to see to it that our people observed the law, respected the duly constituted authority, and would not he assist the people of the mining communities of the State in curbing violence, preventing destruction of property, or local insurrections that might cause death. Governor fisher promised to do that, but he has failed miserably in living up to the promises which he made to our committees who called upon him from time to time.

We have asked Governor Fisher in behalf of our people to conduct public investigations so that we might be given an opportunity to

show, through the medium of any investigating committee he might set up, how the police powers of the State have been usurped by the strike breaking coal corporations, but that he has refused to do.

I understand from the newspapers that he is taking or has been taking some action along that line, conducting some kind of an investigation. But so far as the mine workers' organization is concerned it is not aware that Governor Fisher is conducting that kind of an investigation, because none of our people have been consulted, none of the members of our officers of the mine workers' organization in any section of the State of Pennylvania have been consulted about the matter.

In the State of Pennsylvania alone there are 80,000 or 85,000 coal miners affected by this present strike.

Senator WHEELER. Besides their families?

Mr. MURRAY. In addition they have dependents, including their wives and children, making up about 420,000 more, or a total of approximately one-half million of people directly affected by the strike in the State of Pennsylvania just now.

The CHAIRMAN. How long has the strike been on?

Mr. MURRAY. Well, the strike originally commenced the 10th day of August, 1925, when the Pittsburgh Coal Co. abrogated its contract. During the course of this strike there has been in the neighborhood of 20.000 families evicted from their homes in central and western Pennsylvania. Nowhere to go, and hastily constructed barracks have been erected for them by the mine workers' organization, to protect them from the elements.

The CHAIRMAN. Has this strike been on continuously since 1925 ?

Mr. MURRAY. It originally started on the 10th day of August, 1925, when the Pittsburgh Coal Co. broke its contract, and extended on April 1, 1927, to include the independent producers who had respected the terms of their contract but who said that they could not pay the Jacksonville scale, that wage agreement, and compete with the coal being mined by the Pittsburgh Coal Co. at a cheaper wage rate.

Senator WHEELER. Was the Pittsburgh Coal Co. the first coal company to break its contract ?

Mr. MURRAY. It was the first company to break its contract.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you mind telling us about that? There was an agreement, as I understand, between the United Mine Workers of America and the Pittsburgh Coal Co.

Mr. MURRAY. Yes, sir; a signed agreement, signed in the city of Jacksonville by Mr. John A. Donaldson, the vice president of the Pittsburgh Coal Co., and by Mr. J. M. Armstrong, the general manager of the Pittsburgh Coal Co.

The CHAIRMAN. And that was at the time universally recognized by both sides as binding?

Mr. MURRAY. It was universally recognized as binding.
The CHAIRMAN. When was that contract entered into?

Mr. MURRAY. That contract was entered into to become effective April 1, 1924.

The CHAIRMAN. And you continued to operate under it until the Pittsburgh Coal Co. summarily and arbitrarily abrogated it?

Mr MURRAY. Until they summarily abrogated that contract August 10, 1925.

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The CHAIRMAN. And for what reason?

Mr. MURRAY. For the reason that I have already told you, the alleged reason that they could not pay this wage and compete with coal mined in States south of the Ohio River, where lower wage rates were being paid.

The CHAIRMAN. Was the rate of wage just the same in your field and in the lower-priced fields when they entered into the contract ?

Mr. MURRAY. No; there was a differential.
The CHAIRMAN. A differential brought about by railroad rates ?

Mr. MURRAY. Well, that is more or less a hypothetical question, Mr. Chairman, and there we would get into the economic phases of the situation. It is something that I should like to discuss but I know you will not have the time to listen to me to talk to you about that.

I believe that during the course of your investigation, however, that that matter can be gone into very fully.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. MURRAY. But the question is this: It shows the trade winds of.coal, the economic fallacy of a large coal mine contending on the one hand that they can not pay a certain wage rate and compete with other mining companies in other States who are evidently and obviously paying a lower wage rate; and, on the other hand, other producers whose coal enters the same markets, continuing the paying of that wage rate, maintaining and respecting their contract obligations until the legal expiration thereof, and then at its expiration coming to the officers of the mine workers' organization and saying that they would like to continue paying that wage rate, but that they. can not do so because of the competition within their own district, not the competition coming from States south of the Ohio River, but the competition among the coal producers in the Pittburgh district alone.

Senator COUZENS. Have the coal rates in the various districts had any effect upon the conditions in your district ?

Mr. MURRAY. Do you mean freight rates ?
Senator COUZENS. Yes.

Mr. MURRAY. I should say they have, Senator Couzens. Eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania district suffered rather severely from the discriminatory rates, the Lake cargo rates, for a number of years. The mine workers' organization through those districts, affected adversely by those freight rates, fought shoulder to shoulder with the coal producers of central and western Pennsylvania for a correction of the freight rate differential bearing against eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania in the Lake Cargo Rate case.

Senator COUZENS. Did you support Mr. Cyrus E. Woods as the nominee for a place on the Interstate Commerce Commission as an organization?

Mr. MURRAY. No, sir; we did not.

Senator Couzens. Did not some of your organization support his nomination and ask his confirmation?

Mr. MURRAY. I think some of our members did.

Senator COUZENS. In doing so did you have any promise or assurance from him that he would help to alleviate that Lake cargo-rate situation?

Mr. MURRAY. No; we did not. So far as I know we had no promise that he would attempt to alleviate that situation in any manner; no promise

of any kind whatsoever. The CHAIRMAN. Oh, well, it does not matter now. He did not have a chance.

Senator COUZENS. No; we prevented it.

Senator WHEELER. He was a stockholder in the Pittsburgh Coal Co., I think, and likewise in the Pennsylvania Railroad.

Senator COUZENS. They supported his confirmation after the Pittsburgh Coal Co. had abrogated its agreement, did it not !

Mr. MURRAY. Not our organization, and so far as I know very few of its individuals. However, that is a question that is debatable and one that I do not suppose this committee is particularly interested in at this time.

Now, I have sought to explain to you just how these trade winds in coal blow. The fact that some 20,000 of our families have been evicted from their homes during the course of this strike, and many thousands of them living on the hillsides in those little hastily constructed barracks

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). How do they live during this extremely cold weather up in your country there?

Mr. MURRAY. Well, I really do not know. I suppose they just live and that is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they live out of an allowance provided by the United Mine Workers of America ?

Mr. MURRAY. They are supported by a relief fund furnished to them by the mine workers' organization.

The CHAIRMAN. But you have not funds enough to sustain that kind of thing for long, have you?

Mr. MURRAY. Well, the funds of the mine workers' organization have been augmented by contributions made by the organized-labor movement throughout the country in response to an appeal made by officers of the American Federation of Labor, and also by publicspirited people and church organizations throughout the State of Pennsylvania.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. MURRAY. But at any rate the effect of this campaign to slaughter prices and depress wages and destroy unions has been to cooleyize American labor. The mine workers' organization has consistently contended that the solution of the problems of the mining industry, an over-developed industry that is keyed up to the point that it can produce approximately twice as much coal as the Nation can consume, overmanned and overcapitalized, operating under a system of cut-throat competition, the equal of which no other industry has experienced; the mine workers organization contends that that situation facing the Nation, with so many people, so many unfortunate souls caught in the net; that the solution of a problem such as that does not lie in the direction of wholesale wage degradation, but that it does lie in setting up some constructive cooperative agencies within the industry, perhaps through a process of governmental regulation of some kind, in the interest of the Nation and in the interest of the people who are dependent upon the industry for a living, that will help the industry in some way to get back on its feet, and to give to

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