573] Assimilation of the Currencies of Great Britain, &c. MAY 12, 1825. [574 Mr. Monck, in reply, stated, that he was | passed on these occasions he stated to still of opinion that under the statute of have been powerfully confirmed by pasElizabeth, it was lawful to apply the poor sages, which he quoted from the report rates in aid of wages. By that act the of a committee in the year 1804, of overseers were bound to provide for the which lord Oriel was chairman. The poor, and of course to supply such de- difficulties then apprehended had vanishficiency in their wages as would enable ed by our return to cash payments, and them to subsist. He hoped the House the measure was now confined to the would entertain the subject, as it ap- mere equalization of the current monies peared to him not inferior to that of Ca- of the two parts of the kingdom. tholic emancipation, or any other that might be brought before that House. Leave was given to bring in the bill. ASSIMILATION OF THE CURRENCIES OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND.] The House having resolved itself into a committee, Mr. Wallace rose. He stated his object to be, to do away one of the most important distinctions, remaining between Great Britain and Ireland, and, at the same time, to remove one of the greatest practical inconveniences Ireland was now subject to, by assimilating the currencies of the two parts of the United Kingdom. The object, he said, was neither new to the House nor to those who, by property, by commercial transactions, or even by official situations, were connected with Ireland-all had felt the inconvenience arising from the difference of the currencies, and all had been anxious that, whenever practicable, the removal of it should be effected. This, if any were necessary, was his apology for bringing forward the present motion, that concurring in that general feeling, he thought that the time was peculiarly favourable for such a measure. That although the evil was then most felt, it was not in periods of great fluctuation, but when the exchange was, as it had been for a considerable time, steady, when the currencies were bearing their due proportion to each other, that such a change could be undertaken with advantage and with safety. When brought forward at one time, difficulties presented themselves from the restriction on money payments and the paper currency, which were thought insuperable; but on that occasion there was not one who did not concur in thinking the measure desirable at a more favourable season. When it was again brought forward it was rather postponed than objected to, on an understanding that it was to be brought forward by the government. The authority arising from what When the real and nominal exchanges was at par, that is, when the payments balance each other, and there is no depreciation in the currency of either country, the difference between the currency was 8 per cent, this was, however, liable to be affected by different circumstances; and he held an account in his hand which showed the extent of its fluctuation to have been at one time as high as 19 per cent in favour of England, at another to have been as low as 1. These fluctuations took place subsequently to the acts which permitted the free importation of corn and the transfer of stock, at a time too, when at Liverpool and Edinburgh the exchange was confined to the mere expense of the transmission of money commuted for bills at a fixed and known number of days. He did not say that this measure would destroy the exchange between the two countries, but he saw no reason why, when the only difference between them was removed by the assimilation of the currencies, that which occurred at the places he had mentioned, should not equally occur in Ireland, and the greatest part of the inconvenience of the exchange should not be removed by taking away all its uncertainty. He then stated the effects of this uncertainty in the injury it produced, both to the individuals, and in the manner in which it affected all the commercial transactions between England and Ireland; which, however unavoidable in the intercourse between Foreign States, ought not to subsist in that between parts of the same kingdom, in which, if the currency was the same, no nominal exchange could exist. This, he said, was the case in respect to London, Liverpool, and Edinburgh; and the union could never be considered as complete, till it was so in respect to Ireland. To obtain this, it was necessary to bring the money of account and the money of circulation to an equality, and to make such money as circulated in any part of the empire, of a value different from what .. ...... 7,850,000 8,152,547 Ending January 1823: To Great Britain and Colonies, Foreign Countries He then traced the state of the current money of Ireland from the remote periods of its history, to the difference that was first established between that and the currency of England in the reign of Ed-one-half the trade foreign. ward the fourth; the different attempts that had been made to bring them to the same standard in the reign of Elizabeth, and during the administration of lord Strafford; the state of the coin preceding the arrival of James the second; the measures adopted by that monarch in raising both the gold and silver; to the act of George the second, by which both the gold and silver were brought to the nominal value at which they now stand, of 8 per cent above the value of the same coins in England. The average of the first period made Of the second ditto, nearly two-ninths. Of the third ditto, not more than one twenty-seventh. It was, however, less in respect to the policy of the measure on which he believed there was likely to be any doubt, than in respect to the mode in which it was to be carried into effect. This he proceeded to detail. The actual currency of Ireland consisted in notes of the Bank of Ireland and of private Bankers, in bills of exchange, in sovereigns, guineas, and silver, of the different denominations used in England, and issued from the British Mint; in tokens issued at different periods, and under the authority of several acts of parliament (a great proportion of which had been called in), and partly of copper coined expressly for the use of Ireland, at the rate of thirteen-pence or twentysix halfpennies to the shilling. The same inconveniences, he said, had been felt from the difference of currencies between England and Scotland previously to the union between those parts of the kingdom; and by the 16th article it was expressly stipulated, the currencies should be in future the same; and a part of that money which was to be received as indemnification, was made applicable to compensate those who should suffer by The Irish pounds and the Irish shilling, this change. The effect expected was were therefore mere imaginary monies; produced; the exchange fell, and, with the coin which was in circulation, with the exception of a short period, has con- the exception of the copper, was British tinued fixed since that time, and by bills coin, passing according to the money at a certain number of days, notwith- of account, for nominally one-thirteenth standing all the shocks to which the pub-more than its value as British currency. lic credit has been exposed. The copper coin, as was stated, being at one-thirteenth less than the copper money of Great Britain. land. The inconvenience of an uncertain exchange, as attaching to all commercial transactions, was, he stated, felt in pro- What he proposed was, to make the portion to the increase of those trans- nominal money of account equal to the actions, which, he was happy to believe, value of that of circulation, and raise the as it regarded Ireland, owing to the re-copper to the rate of that passing in Engpeal of the Union duties, and other measures lately taken, was likely to be most rapid. He then stated the imports and exports at different periods, and observed how the capital of Great Britain had gradually absorbed the foreign trade of Ireland, which was now chiefly carried on through British ports. He admitted this latter, as affecting the lower orders, to be an important change; but argued, that the inconvenience arising from it could be only temporary, and that no real injury could be produced to them, either in their dealings or the value of their labour. If this change were the and when the accounts were to be rendered to the treasury or to parliament, again converted into British. The inconveni whole, there would be no necessity for a legislative measure, the prerogative of the Crown was sufficient to effect it, either by raising the value of the coin ac-ence of this practice was obvious, and it tually current, or by calling it in and would be removed by the provisions he issuing a new and more valuable coin in had stated. its place; the latter, though attended with With respect to Bank notes which now some expense, he thought on many ac- circulated, and had been issued with refercounts, the most desirable course. What ence to Irish currency, they consisted of created the necessity of a legislative mea- those of the bank of Ireland, and those of sure was, the regulation of contracts, either private bankers. He should not propose actually subsisting or hereafter to be en- the calling in either one description or tered into. With respect to the first, he the other, but that all notes that were stated, that as currency bears the propor- issued in future, either by the Bank of tion of ths to the nominal value, and Ireland or the private banks, should have that in every payment made ths of reference to British currency. The Bank the value in current British coin, was of Ireland, he understood, compounded deemed equivalent to the sum stipulated for their stamp duties, and were not in in nominal currency; that is, that 1007. the habit of re-issuing the notes that reBritish would be received as equal to turned to them; to that body, therefore, 1087. 6s. 8d. Irish; this was the rule he the provision could produce no inconveshould adopt, and declare that every sub-nience. The private bankers were, howsisting contract, having reference to Irish currency, should be taken to be satisfied by repayment of ths of the sum stipulated in the currency of Great Britain. This, it is true, would nominally reduce the amount due byth, but the value of what was due would be unaltered, and the sum received would, after the measure had taken place, be precisely the same as before. With respect to contracts to be entered into, he proposed to enact, that after a day to be fixed in the bill, they should all have reference to British currency. No inconvenience should arise from this, except from the ignorance of one of the parties, and this he could propose to provide against by measures that might give the most general publicity to the provisions of the bill. ever, in a different situation; they did not compound, and had the privilege of reissuing any note returned to them during three years from its date; the depriving them of this privilege without compensation, would be an injustice, and the compensation he should propose was, that for all notes returned to them within a year from their date, if sent to the stamp office, they should be allowed the full amount of the stamps; if during the second year, ths of the amount; and if during the third, one half. This compensation he felt to be a very liberal one, and had reason to believe it would be perfectly satisfactory. There were minor details, with which he did not think it necessary to trouble the committee. These were the general principles and provisions of the measure he had to propose, and to The debt of Ireland, which was now these he did not anticipate any objection. stated in Irish currency, he proposed He certainly had heard some fears exshould hereafter be reduced to its pressed; among others, an apprehension amount in British currency, and become that it might be the means of the money nominally what it was in reality. No being at times drawn from Ireland to this injury by this would be suffered by the country; this, he argued at some length, public creditor, whose interests would could not be the case; and even supposcontinue to enjoy the same protection as ing the danger not to be as visionary before; the same sum in principal or inter- as he believed, the remedy of an inferior est would still be receivable, although the currency was an evil that infinitely outnominal amount of both would undergo a weighed it. He was aware of the prejudiminution. dices that it was liable to, but these prejudices must always be encountered; if they were an argument now, they were so at all times, and he did not see that any period was likely to arise in which they might be encountered with less apprehension than at present. He should propose that all books of account, in which the public had any interest, should be in future kept in British currency. The chief branches of the Revenue were already assessed in this currency; they were then converted into Irish, VOL. XIII. 2 P 3. "That it is expedient that the values of the monies of account in Ireland, and monies of account in Great Britain, should in all cases whatever be assimilated to each other. He did not, he said, propose this as a opinion of this House, That it is desirable measure of great political importance, but to assimilate the currency of Ireland to of considerable practical convenience. If the currency of Great Britain, without it did not take away the exchange be- disturbing the relation between debtor tween the countries, it would settle and and creditor, and to make hereafter one fix its rate; it would facilitate the transac-uniform currency for the United Kingtions, and convert the trade between the dom. two countries into a really home trade, with all the advantages belonging to it. Above all, and to which he attached the greatest moment, it would remove a great subsisting distinction, and by so doing tend to draw closer the bonds of union and encourage a diffusion of British capital throughout Ireland, and, by affording means of employment, probably have some share in alleviating the distress and poverty which had been the parent of all the crimes and disorders by which Ireland has been so long disgraced and afflicted. The right hon. gentleman then moved the following resolutions: 1. "That the pound sterling in Great Britain and Ireland respectively is, according to the currency of each, divisible into twenty shillings; and that the shilling in Great Britain and Ireland respectively is, according to the said currency of each, divisible into twelve-pence; but that the silver coin which represents a shilling of the money of Great Britain, is paid, accepted and taken as representing one shilling and one penny of the currency of Ireland, and the pound sterling of the currency of Great Britain, is, at the par of exchange, paid, accepted and deemed as equivalent to one pound one shilling and eight pence of the currency of Ireland; and that any sum of British currency, is at the same par of exchange, paid accepted and deemed as equivalent to an amount of pounds shillings and pence of the currency of Ireland, greater by onetwelfth part than the amount of pounds shillings and pence, of the currency of Great Britain contained in such sum; and that any sum of Irish currency is, at the same par of exchange, paid, accepted and deemed as equivalent to an amount of pounds shillings and pence of the currency of Great Britain, less by onethirteenth part than the amount of pounds hillings and pence of the currency of Ireland contained in such sum. 2. "That as great complexity of accounts between persons residing within the different parts of the same United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and other inconveniences, arise from the said difference of currency, it is the 4. "That it is expedient that all duties constituting the public revenues of Ireland, should be calculated and received, by the several departments under which they are collected, in the currency of the United Kingdom; and that all books and accounts kept in relation to such duties, and all accounts in which the public have any interest, should be kept and stated in the said currency of the United Kingdom, and in no other. 5. That it is expedient that the public debt in Ireland should cease to be estimated in Irish currency, and that in all accounts thereof the same shall be stated at its amount in the currency of the United Kingdom; and all sums payable for interest in respect of the said debt, should be calculated and paid in the said currency of the United Kingdom. 6. "That it is expedient that all existing salaries, allowances, pensions, duties and debts, and all contracts, agreements, and stipulations for the payment of money, having reference to Irish currency, shall be deemed to be fully discharged and satisfied by payment according to the amount in British currency, calculated at the rate of twelve thirteenth parts of the amount stipulated to be paid in Irish currency. 7. That it is expedient, that from and after the period of assimilating the Irish to the British currency, all contracts, agreements, and stipulations, involving or implying the payment of money, should be held to be entered into in reference to money of the value and description of that now circulating in Great Britain, unless the contrary be made to appear. 8." That it is expedient, that in pursuance of any proclamation to be issued by his majesty, the several coins of Great Britain should circulate in Ireland at the same nominal as well as at the same real value as in other parts of the United Kingdom. 581] Roman Catholic Claims. 9. "That it is expedient that all copper coin of the currency of Ireland, be permitted to be brought to the Bank of Ireland, in pursuance of any proclamation to be issued by his majesty, and that there be deliverd at the said Bank of Ireland a sum in the current copper coin of Great Britain, after the rate of twelvepence of the English copper coin for thirteen pence of the Irish copper coin." Sir J. Newport expressed his concurrence in the principle of the measure, though he feared it would be attended with considerable difficulty in the execution. It might certainly excite some degree of alarm, and ought therefore to be accompanied with such modifications as might allay any feelings of apprehension on the part of the people of Ireland. Mr. L. Foster approved of the principle of the measure, and thought there would be no difficulty in getting over the obstacles opposed to it. He believed that in two months after it should pass into a law, it might be brought into practical operation. Sir H. Parnell thanked the right hon. gentleman and the government for having brought before parliament a subject, which was so well calculated to facilitate the commercial intercourse between England and Ireland. currency would be a measure of very great HOUSE OF LORDS. Friday, May 13. The ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS.] Archbishop of York presented a petition from the clergy of the East Riding of Yorkshire against granting further concessions to the Catholics. Lord King said, he could not assert that the opposition at the meeting at which this petition had been voted was numerous, but it certainly was very respectable, and that the arguments urged against the petition had been distinguished for good sense and sound reasoning. It was worthy of remark, that but few petitions had been presented from the clergy of those dioceses which were large and rich, such as Canterbury, York, Winchester, and Durham; whereas they came in great numbers from those parts of the country in which the dioceses were small; in short, from those places from which translations might be desirable. He must, however, say, that for his part, he preferred the steady and venerable fixtures of a House to those pieces of furniture which were moveable and liable to change. Mr. Grenfell approved of the plan, and Lord Kenyon said, it was not fair to thought the present was the best time for carrying it into effect. The copper coin make such observations when those memof Ireland was circulating, at nearly double bers of the right reverend bench who the value of copper in the market; hold- were in the habit of addressing the House, were absent. He had no hesitation in ing out the greatest temptation to counterfeit money. A new copper coinage saying, that it was a downright calumny would increase the size of the Irish pence to represent the petitions which were preand halfpence; and that alone would re-sented against the Catholic claims as concile the lower orders in Ireland to the proceeding from interested motives on the part of the right reverend bench, or to present measure. insinuate that, in this instance, the clergy did not act from their sense of duty, but gave way to temporal views. To say this, he would repeat, was nothing less than a downright calumny. Mr. M. Fitzgerald returned his thanks to the right hon. gentleman opposite for the very salutary measure of which he had just stated the outline to the committee. He did not anticipate any of those practical difficulties from it, which had been mentioned by some of his hon. friends. On the contrary, he was certain that it would tend much to the simplification of the present system; and by so doing, would greatly benefit the commerce of Ireland. Mr. John Martin suggested to the right hon. gentleman the expediency of issuing a coinage of silver threepences. We had formerly had silver pence and silver two pences; and the recurrence to such a Lord King replied, that as to the noble baron saying that any thing which fell from him was or was not a calumny, that was what he heartily despised; but if the noble lord meant to say, that what he had just stated respecting the quarter from which the greater part of the petitions came was not the fact, he must give him a flat denial. The fact notoriously was, that the petitions had been numerous from the counties where the dioceses were small, and that comparatively few had |