MR. T. S. DUNCOMBE had moved for the papers of which the right hon. Gentleman spoke a fortnight ago; and it was his conviction that they had been purposely withheld by the people at the Post Office in order to put him in a disadvantageous position in entering upon the subject before the House. It had already been made perfectly clear that Grapes was dismissed without having been furnished with the reasons of his dismissal. He had asked for a copy of the order dismissing him, and it had been refused. He entreated them to give him the date of that order; and he was told in reply that it was not dated at all. If, as the right hon. Gentleman observed, it was true that he had tampered with witnesses, he would not have been a fit person for employment in the Post Office; but the accusation was altogether false and unfounded. It would be much more creditable to the establishment, and satisfactory to the public, if an investigation were at once instituted into the cause of the man's dismissal; and he would undertake to prove that the charges had been trumped up by Kelly, whose malpractices had been exposed by Grapes; and who, therefore, had directed against that unfortunate subordinate all his enmity. It would be disgraceful to the Post Office if it could be shown that there had been no ground whatever for dismissing Grapes; and it was easy to demonstrate that his only offence had been his daring in questioning the honesty of Kelly, to whom in the end he had been most unjustly sacrificed. If he was returned to the next Parliament, he would without any delay bring the subject again before the House; and if a Committee were granted he would put it beyond all manner of doubt that Kelly was the greatest tyrant ever employed in any public department; and that so long as he remained in the Post Office the administration of the affairs of that establishment would be open to continual abuse. Under the circumstances, he would content himself with having brought the case before the House. Motion by leave, withdrawn. PASSENGERS' BILL. MR. HAWES appeared at the bar of the House, and presented the Report of the Select Committee appointed to draw up the reasons of the Commons for disagreeing with certain Amendments of the Lords in the Passengers' Bill. LORD G. BENTINCK said, he had great reason to complain of the course which the Government had taken with respect to certain clauses which had, at his sugges tion, been introduced into this Bill, and which had since been struck out by the noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies, while the Bill was passing through the House of Lords. One of those clauses was to enforce an official survey of all ships employed to carry passengers; and the other clause was to require a certain number of men to be employed in British ships. The Chancellor of the Exchequer assented to these clauses, and undertook to insert them in the Bill. This he considered a compact binding on the Government; but, to his surprise, one of those clauses-that relating to the manning of the ships-had been since struck out of the Bill by the Secretary of State for the Colonies. he (Lord G. Bentinck) considered to be a direct breach of compact between him and the Government. This The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER protested against the language of his noble Friend, in making the allegation that there had been any breach of compact on the part of the Government. The only arrangement entered into between him and his noble Friend was as to the surveying of the ships; and this had been strictly complied with, for the clause was in the Bill. It was true his noble Friend did afterwards propose that a clause should be introduced to regulate the number of men which should be employed on board the ships; and at the time he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) said that he saw no objection to the clause, and it was accordingly introduced into the Bill; but it had upon consideration been since struck out by the Lords, with the consent of his noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies. This, however, could not be called a breach of compact, for no compact was entered into with respect to the clause relating to the manning of ships; it was entirely confined to the surveying of the ships, to ascertain their seaworthiness. LORD G. BENTINCK said, he thought that, in his position, he had good right to complain, because, if this were allowed, it would put an end to all conventional arrangements, which saved so much trouble, and to that confidence which was so desirable between parties in that House. MR. HAWES denied that any such compact as the noble Lord had referred to was entered into. The matter dropped. SCINDE. the blessings of good government: it was MR. HUME rose to move for copies of still completely under a military despotism. the despatches of Lord Hardinge respec- There was not a civil officer in power ting Scinde; and called the attention of the throughout the whole province; the whole House to the state of that province. He administration was under the control of had, early in the Session, placed on the General Napier. Did the Government paper a notice of his intention to ask some contemplate that this state of things should questions in respect to the seizure and occu- continue? It would be much the wisest pation of this province by British troops; plan to deliver up Scinde to the natives, to but having at the time understood that whom the country properly belonged; and Lord Hardinge was about to report on the we should then have a friendly race standsubject, he had considered it premature to ing between us and the Belooches and do anything further; and he had accor- other hill tribes by whom our other posdingly waited until that day, the very close sessions were continually disturbed. He of the Session. He was convinced that we did not desire to raise any question in rehad taken possession of Scinde in a most spect to the government of General Naunwarrantable manner; and the injustice pier. He did not think the time had come was now recoiling on us in the shape of for that; he merely looked at the Governa heavy charge, amounting to nearly ment as it now was and as it ought to be. 1,000,000l. per annum. Commercially, He hoped the right hon. Gentleman would Scinde had been of no use to us; and he be able to give such an answer to the ques did not think it ever would be an advan- tion as would relieve him (Mr. Hume) from tage. Politically, our gain had been as little; the necessity of taking any further steps; it drained our other dominions of an enor- and he was sure the Government would be mous sum yearly incurred as a charge in glad of the opportunity that was now afretaining our conquest; and this was so forded them of setting at rest the anxious much taken from the general revenue, the doubts which those interested in our Indian surplus from which should be applied to empire naturally entertained. He begged those great public works, drainage and rail- to ask what the future government of ways, which, as every one knew, were now Scinde was to be? Whether, after four essentially necessary to the prosperity of years of peaceful occupation, it was to be India. Our frontiers had been in conse-placed under the same government as the quence extended some hundreds of miles through deserts; and thus, in a military point of view, we had, in holding Scinde, most effectually weakened our old position. Scinde, again, was surrounded by hill tribes, all of whom were robbers and plunderers; and the army we had found necessary to preserve peace at this moment, numbered from 13,000 to 14,000 men, Native and European. The result of such a drain upon their ordinary resources, would compel the Council to increase their debt. The deficit in the revenues of India, had, in fact, solely been produced by the expenses of Scinde. Until we got possession of that province, there had always been a surplus; and the debt now amounted to 39,000,000l. Believing, therefore, that we had obtained the country dishonestly, and seeing that the conquest was neither commercially nor politically likely to be a gain to us, he thought it high time that in England it should be known what the Government now intended to do. Scinde, as they had been told by a Speech from the Throne, had been annexed to the British empire; that had been the case for four or five years; but still, Scinde did not enjoy other territories under the East India Company, or whether it was to become a Queen's colony, or to remain under a military government? ŠIR J. HOBHOUSE said, that nothing could be fairer than the manner in which the hon. Gentleman had proceeded in calling the attention of Parliament to this very important subject. The House, however, would not expect him (Sir J. Hobhouse) to give any opinion whatever as to the possession of Scinde, or as to the mode in which that valuable province had been annexed to the British Empire. He found it in that position referred to by his hon. Friend; and he admitted that it had not been attached to India in the ordinary way. It had not been included, as the hon. Gentleman would seem to wish, in the government of Bombay, but had been placed under the Governor General and Council, to whom General Napier, commanding in Scinde, made all his reports. vernment, certainly, was essentially military; and there was, it was true, scarcely a civil officer employed in the province; military men only were employed, and General Napier himself was the life and The go soul of the whole Administration. He would not enter into details with respect to General Napier; he did not think himself called on to say more than that since he (Sir J. Hobhouse) had been connected with India affairs, he had found that officer sedulously attentive to all his duties. If anything was wrong, to General Napier the evil was not to be attributed; the system might be objectionable; but so far as General Napier was concerned, he had most honestly, conscientiously, and ably carried out the form of government which was supposed to have been best adapted to the circumstances of the case. General Napier, in repeated communications, had expressed his conviction that the present mode of administering the affairs of the newly conquered province had been most successful, and had answered better than if the ordinary system suggested by the hon. Member for Montrose had been resorted to. He had, in the despatches sent home, endeavoured to show this; and, on the first blush of the question, it would appear that this opinion was fully borne out by the facts. The hon. Gentleman had somewhat exaggerated the expenditure in Scinde: it was not quite so much as he had stated, though, at the same time, there could be no doubt that a considerable addition to the charges of our Indian dominions had resulted from the conquest and possession of that province. It should, however, be remembered, in considering this cost, that long before we entered Scinde we had found it necessary to keep up a large military force in defence of our frontier positions in that direction. The last letter received from General Napier conveyed the information that the present number of regular troops in Scinde was 7,500. We had, further, 2,400 police, preserving order; and this was an effective force that might be called on at any moment. General Napier even said that an active officer would be able to retain the province with 5,000 men, supposing them to be as well organized as the present army. On the whole, during the last four years, it had been peacefully governed. There had been but one serious disturbance, which had been quelled by General Napier, with his usual rapidity, in fifty-four hours; and at this moment the whole country was in complete tranquillity, well governed, and comparatively prosperous. He was not in a condition to say that this form of government was intended to be continued. If Scinde was to belong to British India, then it would have to be ruled like the rest of the empire. General Napier undoubtedly had done much good, and many great things; he had abolished slavery, made canals, raised embankments, opened harbours and effected other improvements; and already a very promising account had been given of what might be expected in future years. Even but four years ago, Scinde was the rendezvous of bands of cut-throats; but now, the roads and river communications were open and securelife and property were respected. Military government had, therefore, so far, been beneficial. But it was not the intention of the Government of India, or of the Government at home, that this military rule should last; and he would take the liberty of reading a despatch, which would be found among the papers, from the Governor General of India to the Court of Directors, which would give a far better account of the intention of Lord Hardinge and the Court of Directors on this subject than anything which could come from him. In that despatch Lord Hardinge said— "With regard to the arrangement which will be best adapted for the future management of Scinde, I am of opinion that the whole of that province ought to be annexed to the presidency of ments, both civil and military, should be furnished Bombay; that the troops and all the establishby and committed to the charge of the Governor in Council of that presidency; that, so long as Major General Sir Charles Napier continues to exercise the civil and military duties of the Government and the command of the forces in Scinde, it will not be advisable to make any change in a country recently subdued. Great advantage has attended the union of the two appointments of governor and commander of the forces in Scinde. disposed to obey the chief who conquered them, A warlike military people are more likely to be than any other public officer who could be selected by the Government. This opinion is limited to a state of affairs such as that which has existed in Punjaub, during the years 1844 and 1845, could Scinde since I arrived in India. The state of the not with advantage have admitted of the annexation of Scinde to the presidency of Bombay. The Government of India could not have selected during the last three years a more efficient officer than Major General Sir Charles Napier for the duties he so ably performs in Scinde. On public grounds, therefore, there has been no occasion on which I could, with benefit to your honourable Company's service, have recommended any better plan for tho administration of Scinde than the present." With respect to the opinion given by his hon. Friend as to the expediency of restoring the Ameers, the old governors of Scinde, he must say, from all the investi MR. HUME did not think the Government were acting wisely for Scinde, if they allowed matters to remain longer as they were, provided that they had made up their minds to change the government to the same position with other parts of India, If the present system was bad, the sooner it was changed the better, SIR DE L. EVANS hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not alter the present state of things in Scinde, unless the whole of our policy was altered in the Punjaub. Motion agreed to. DONATION FROM THE UNITED STATES. MR. BROTHERTON moved an Address to Her Majesty gations he had made into the subject, that he was obliged to come to a contrary conclusion. He had found that the very rumour of the Ameers coming back had produced injurious consequences. The people who had latterly come into Scinde, and settled down there as cultivators of the soil, or in the small towns, began some of them to return; and considerable alarm was SIR J. HOBHOUSE had not said the produced, merely by statements which had present government was objectionable, appeared in the English papers, and which He only said it was a right thing that the had afterwards been copied into the Bom-country should be annexed to the presibay papers, to the effect that the Ameers dency of Bombay. ought to be restored. Some persons entertained the idea that it was better to be contented with our former boundary, than to retain this extended territory. This might be very well if we had not such a place as Beloochistan on our left, and other wild tribes occupying the hills that divide Scinde from Affghanistan. But his hon. Friend should recollect that we had now, in point of fact, possession of the Punjaub; and he doubted whether, having that great plain in our possession, we should allow any body to hold Scinde but ourselves, or at least parties on whom we could depend. He doubted whether any arrangement could have been made better suited to the exigencies of the moment than that which now prevailed. At this time, as he had The hon. Gentleman then referred to the already said, everything was going on in great amount of misery and destitution peace. Lieutenant General Napier was in which had been experienced in Ireland, complete possession of the country. He and to the very large contributions raised could confidently state, after having read in America for the relief of that country, all the despatches, that there was no de- one committee having raised a sum of not sire on the part of the people that the rule less than 109,000l., and another of of the Ameers should be restored; and 60,000l. The expedition with which he, for one, should not like to be respon- these large contributions were converted sible for any such change of policy. into food, and transmitted to Ireland, was At the same time, this was a subject fairly also matter of surprise as well as gratiopen to discussion, and he should be dis-tude. He would read a few extracts from posed to enter upon that discussion when- letters, to show the manner in which the ever the occasion required. He repeated subject had been taken up in the United that on the return home of Sir Charles States :Napier, the province of Scinde would be annexed to the Government of Bombay. "That She will be graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before this House a Copy of the Letter from the Secretary of State for Foreign Washington, acknowledging the donation in food Affairs to Her Britannic Majesty's Minister at and money of the Legislature and Citizens of the United States of America, for the relief of the famine in Ireland," citizens. "Cincinnati, Ohio, April 22, 1847. Early in the month of February, accounts of the suffering SIR R. H. INGLIS thought we ought in Ireland, for want of food, were received in this not to forget those princes who had been city, and excited strong sympathy among our placed by our arms under our power. Ad-was at once raised, and the subscribers were apA meeting was called, a handsome sum mitting that one had proved unfaithful, pointed an executive committee to manage the that was no reason why injustice should be sum collected, and give efficiency to the cause of done to others. Regarding this as one of Irish relief. At this meeting it was determined the blackest events in the history of this into provisions, and that a ship load should be that all receipts of money should be converted country, he should hail with satisfaction sent to the suffering poor of Ireland." and joy the restoration of those princes to the thrones which they occupied, and who, whether they ruled according to our maxims or not, had as good a right to their thrones as any of the sovereigns of Europe. Zanesville, Ohio, Mushingum County, April 30, 1847.-Our countrymen, with a generosity that is proverbial, and ever alive to the calls of suffering humanity, regardless alike of race, clime, or religion, have nobly responded to the heart-stricken appeals of their famishing brethren on the other side of the Atlantic; and out of the esteem. There was one feature in the abundance liberally supplied them by a bountiful transaction deserving of particular notice, Providence, they have given their mite. Small namely, that part of the donations came from our red brethren in the west. as it may be in comparison with your requirements, it is evidence, at least, of heartfelt sympathy in your sufferings, and a desire to alleviate them." "New York, May 19.-Out of one contribution of 170 dollars, the largest part was contributed by the children of the forest, our red brethren of the Choctau nation. Even these distant men (as the chairman of the New York committee well observes) have felt the force of Christian sympathy and benevolence, and have given their cheerful aid in this good cause, though they are separated from you by so many miles of land and an ocean's breadth." "New York, June 1.-Accompanying this you will receive a bill of lading for 300 barrels of corn meal, to be distributed under the directions of the central committee of relief, to the needy and destitute people of Ireland. This small offering is from the contributions of a few of the lodges of Odd Fellows of the city and State of New York, and is tendered in the hope, that although it may be considered but a mite towards relieving the wants of a suffering nation, still that it may be the means of temporary relief to a few of those whom starvation is reducing to the brink of despair and death. The best wishes of the order go with their donation; and the most fervent hopes are entertained that the hand of a merciful Providence will speedily restore an abundant supply of the fruits of the earth, so that the famine may depart, and the now suffering people of Ireland may once more be restored to their usual comforts, and be again permitted to enjoy the smiles of their happy homes." After the manifestation of such kindly feelings on their part, we could do no less than give expression to the gratitude which we felt. He regarded the conduct of America, in this respect, as of great importance, seeing it tended to confirm those friendly relations that existed between the two countries, and would aid in laying the foundations of lasting peace. These reasons justified him in moving that this Address be presented to Her Majesty, simply with the view of eliciting the strong expressions of national gratitude which he was certain were felt in every part of Her Majesty's dominions. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: I have very great pleasure in acquiescing in and supporting the Motion of my hon. Friend. The only regret I can feel on the occasion is, that although the despatch for which he has moved, expresses in strong terms the feelings of Her Majesty's Government, and the feelings which we believe animate the whole of the British nation; still I am sensible that no terms which could have been employed by me could adequately convey the feelings of thankfulness and admiration which the conduct of our brethren in the United States must have excited amongst all classes of Her Majesty's subjects. As my hon. Friend has stated, not only was the supply sent large, liberal, and generous in amount, but the manner in which it was sent, the promptitude with which it was forwarded, and the strong feeling of interest which was expressed on the part of all those who had contributed to that supply, were more almost than could possibly be expected on the part of persons who, however united to us in origin, and bound to us by every tie of language and religion, of manners and habits, are still separated from us by a mighty expanse of ocean. The extent of sympathy by which our brethren in the United States have been so honourably distinguished, was more than could have been expected. I agree with my hon. Friend, that transactions of this nature are calculated to cement in the strongest manner those ties which ought to unite kindred nations; and it is this circumstance which ought not to be lost sight of, that while on the one hand acts of generosity such as these rivet the affections of those upon whom they have been conferred, and on the other hand they tend, by the very exercise which accompanies them of good and kindly feelings, to increase the affection of those by whom they are done towards those who have been the objects of those generous MR. W. BROWN concurred in what had been said by the hon. Gentleman with regard to the effect upon the amicable relations of the two countries which the re-acts. And, therefore, Sir, both in regard cent conduct of America was calculated to produce. It was not merely the amount of their contributions; but the promptness with which vessels were placed at the disposal of the contributors for the transmission of grain to Ireland, and the kindness and hospitality which were shown to those who went from this country to procure provisions, that demanded their gratitude and to the feelings excited here, and the feelings which those actions proclaim in America, I am happy to think that, whatever may have been the sufferings and calamities which gave rise to these acts, at all events they will so far have been attended with happy results that they have afforded to our brethren in the United States an opportunity of doing that which will never |