cation of the Declaration of London; and whether, in view of the fact that the views of our overseas dominions were not obtained before the Declaration was signed, he would now call the attention of the premiers of our overseas dominions at the present conference to the movement to prevent the Declaration of London being ratified. SIR E. GREY. It has been repeatedly stated that the whole subject will be discussed at the conference.

Mr. HOLT. May I ask my right honourable friend whether he is aware that the Liverpool Steamship Owners Association and large numbers of steamship owners in the country are very anxious to have the Declaration ratified?

SIR E. GREY. It is quite true that at the Foreign Office we have received representations strongly in favour of the Declaration of London as well as on the other side.

Mr. HUNT. May I ask the right honourable gentleman whether, when this is to be discussed at the imperial conference, he will point out the strenuous opposition of shipowners and the great majority of Admiralty experts of this country to the Declaration of London on account of the danger of starvation and other great dangers? SIR E. GREY. The question of the views of particular individuals is one for themselves to make known.

Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON. Can the right honourable gentleman say whether the discussion will be on a formal resolution or whether it will be more or less informal?

SIR E. GREY. It will be discussed at the conference, and not at the private proceedings of the Committee of Defence. I understand it comes up at the conference on notice which has been given by the Government of Australia, but exactly what form the discussion will be of course I cannot foretell.

MAJOR ANSTRUTHER-GRAY. Will this House have an opportunity of discussing it?

SIR E. GREY. That has been repeatedly stated.

JUNE 14, 1911.

NAVAL PRIZE BILL.

"To consolidate, with amendments, the enactments relating to naval prize of war," presented by Sir Edward Grey; to be read a second time upon Monday, 26th June, and to be printed.*

1 Richard D. Holt, a partner of Alfred Holt & Co., steamship-owners, Liberal.

2 Conservative.

26 H. C. Deb., 5 s., 1525.

For the text of this bill see Appendix, post, p. 710.

91572-19- -11

JUNE 19, 1911.1

DECLARATION OF LONDON.

Mr. Butcher asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the fact that the question of the legality of the conversion of merchantmen into warships on the high seas is left unsettled by the Declaration of London, the international prize court, when established, would not, under The Hague Conference of 1907, be entitled and bound to decide all questions relating to such conversion in accordance with what the majority of that court might conceive to be the general principles of justice and equity; and whether such decisions of the international prize court would not be binding upon and enforced against British subjects; and whether His Majesty's Government still adhere to their expressed views that, in the event of an international prize court being established and the Declaration of London being ratified, our position as regards questions left unsettled by the Declaration will be the same as it has hitherto been.

The UNDER-SECRETARY FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. McKinnon Wood). It is impossible to discuss these complicated matters within the limits of the reply to a question, but the subject will be dealt with fully in debate within a very short time.

Mr. BUTCHER. In view of the forthcoming debate on the naval prize bill and the Declaration of London, is it not right that Parliament and the country should know the views of the Government before the debate comes on?

Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. The views of the Government will be clearly expressed on that occasion.

Mr. BUTCHER. Can not the honorable gentleman give an answer to a comparatively simple question?

Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. No discourtesy was intended in my reply. I have tried to give an answer, but I could not reply to the question in less than 10 minutes.

CAPTAIN CRAIG.2 Do not the Government change their views from day to day?

Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. No, sir.

MAJOR ANSTRUTHER-GRAY. Is it not worth while spending 10 minutes in order to elucidate the views of the Government?

Mr. Butcher asked which, if any, of the powers represented at the London naval conference have up to the present time ratified the Declaration.

Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. The Declaration has not yet been ratified by any power.

Mr. BUTCHER. Have any other powers acceded to the Declaration? Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. All the powers that were parties to the international conference have signed the Declaration.

Mr. BUTCHER. But have any of the powers not party to the international conference acceded to the Declaration?

Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. I must ask for notice of that.

Mr. BUTCHER. How many years will have to elapse before the Declaration can be amended?

Mr. SPEAKER. That is a question of which notice should be given. Mr. Butcher asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of article 69 of the Declaration of London, which provides that none of the signatory powers can denounce the Declaration until the end of a period of 12 years, beginning 60 days after the first deposit of ratifications, this country will not, during that period, be deprived of all right to insist on any improvements in the Declaration; and whether, in view of these facts, he adheres to his statement at the imperial conference, on 2d June, 1911, that, by ratifying the Declaration of London now, His Majesty's Government did not in the least prejudice their freedom of action in regard to advocating further improvements in the future; and whether His Majesty's Government attach any value to their alleged freedom of action in regard to advocating such improvements.

The PRIME MINISTER. I see no reason to qualify in any way the statement referred to. The great advance in international law and practice marked by the Declaration of London is happily secured for a fixed term of years. That provision does not at all preclude any of the parties to the Declaration from advocating still further progress in the way of international agreement, and our freedom of action is, in the opinion of His Majesty's Government, not less valuable than it was before.

Mr. BUTCHER. Does the right honorable gentleman anticipate any other powers will accept an improvement in the Declaration, and, if so, can not that be provided for before the ratification of the Declaration rather than after?

The PRIME MINISTER. No, sir, the Declaration is such a substantial advance that we heartily desire its ratification at the earliest possible

moment.

1

Mr. Newman repeated his suggestion that this debate should not be conducted on party lines.

1 Conservative.

DECLARATION OF LONDON.1

Mr. Butcher asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the fact that the question of the legality of the conversion of merchantmen into warships on the high seas is left unsettled by the Declaration of London, the international prize court, when established, would not under The Hague Conference of 1907 be entitled and bound to decide all questions relating to such conversion in accordance with what the majority of that court might conceive to be the general principles of justice and equity; and whether such decisions of the international prize court would not be binding upon and enforced against British subjects; and whether His Majesty's Government still adhere to their expressed views that, in event of an international prize court being established and the Declaration of London being ratified, our position as regards questions left unsettled by the Declaration will be the same as it has hitherto been. Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. It is impossible to discuss these complicated matters within limits of the reply to a question, but the subject will be dealt with fully in debate within a very short time.

Mr. Butcher asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will state which, if any, of the powers represented at the London naval conference have up to the present time ratified the Declaration.

Mr. MCKINNON WOOD. The Declaration has not yet been ratified by any power.

JUNE 20, 1911."

DECLARATION OF LONDON.

Mr. Hunt asked the Prime Minister whether he can now say on what days the Declaration of London will be discussed; and whether the House of Lords will also have an opportunity of discussing it before it is ratified.

The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith). The Declaration of London has already been discussed in the House of Lords in a debate which extended over three days, the 8th, 9th, and 13th March.

Mr. HUNT. Is the right honorable gentleman aware that on 21st July, 1910, the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs stated that the Declaration of London would not be ratified unless passed by Parliament, and is it not a fact that "Parliament" means both Houses?

127 H. C. Deb., 5 s., 125.

27 H. C. Deb., 5 s., 145.

The PRIME MINISTER. No. It would make no difference to the action of His Majesty's Government whether the House of Lords approved or disapproved of it.

Mr. KING. May I ask the Prime Minister whether, before the discussion on the Declaration of London in this House, he will cause an official report of the debate in the colonial conference to be circulated amongst members?

The PRIME MINISTER. I hope it will be circulated at once. The labours of the conference concluded to-day, and the proceedings will be published as soon as possible.

SIR F. BANBURY.2 When does the right honorable gentleman propose to take the naval prize bill?

The PRIME MINISTER. I am going to answer that question.

Mr. REMNANT. In reference to the Declaration of London, I wish to ask the Prime Minister whether, in a matter of so great and grave importance he will allow the official whips to be withdrawn from the division?

The PRIME MINISTER. No, sir; certainly not. This Declaration has been approved of by His Majesty's Government after the fullest examination and consideration of the subject. We regard it as a matter of high policy and we are not going to abdicate our responsibility by leaving it an open question.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.3

The PRIME MINISTER. On Wednesday we shall take the second reading of the naval prize bill.

JUNE 26, 1911.4

DECLARATION OF LONDON.

Mr. Butcher asked the Prime Minister whether, seeing that no party issue is involved in the Declaration of London, His Majesty's Government will allow the question of appointing a commission of experts to examine into and report upon the subject to be decided by a vote of the House of Commons as a non-party question, and will not allow the ordinary party machinery to be used to influence such decision.

The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith). I must refer the honorable and learned member to the answer which I gave to the honorable

1 Liberal.

Conservative.

327 H. C. Deb., 5 s., 150. 427 H. C. Deb., 5 s., 235.