Q. Yes, that is just in a different way than I was going to state the matter. He left you, then, that afternoon, hey?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you seen him since that time?

A. No, I never saw him. I wrote once, but never got any reply. Q. Where did you write him?

A. I wrote him at Washington.

Q. Did you have his Washington address?

A. Well, I just put it in care of the surety company.

Q. Was the letter ever returned to you undelivered?
A. No.

Q. When did you write the letter?

A. Oh, I wrote it a month ago or so.

Q. Ample time in which to obtain a reply?

A. Ample time, yes.

Q. Postage prepaid, of course?

A. Why, sure.

Q. Have you made any other efforts to get in personal contact with Mr. Hayes?

A. No, I-when Senator Stanfield was down last week I asked him to do it, and he said he would; and I talked with him about this Senate investigation, and he told me from his experience in the land investigations and the oil investigations that the only way to do would be to have a Senate investigation. I told him time was too short now before election. He said he realized that, but I could file. an application and they probably would get to it after election. Q. That application, then, was contained in a wire to Senator Reed?

A. Yes.

Q. He was there on Thursday last week?

A. Who?

Q. Senator Stanfield?

A. He was there Thursday evening. Yes, I didn't wire--I thought it over for two days before I wired. In the meantime I talked to Mr. U'Ren over the telephone.

Q. Yes, but Senator Stanfield-you had this conversation on the evening of last Thursday, in Salem?

A. Yes, after his speech there.

Q. And you say he thought best to make application to the committee?

A. Yes, he said the only way we could run the thing down and find out the truth of the thing was by Senate investigation, and I know enough from public service methods in politics, I know that no individual or no newspapers can get heads or tails of it, nor find anything about it at all.

Q. Then you didn't act on that date, but you considered the matter for two days?

A. I considered it for two days, yes.

Q. In the meantime you consulted with Mr. W. S. U'Ren.

A. Yes, over the phone.

Q. Did you ask him about the propriety or advisability of this investigation?

103434-27-PT 5-26

A. He thought it was all right. He said we never would get anywhere in running things down, showing up this yellow ticket, and things, unles we started to work on it.

Q. Did you consult with your city editor about this matter?
A. Well, I talked with Mr. Crain beforehand, but I didn't tell him
I was going to send a telegram. He advised me to send it the day
after Senator Stanfield was there.

Q He also advised you to send that?
A. Yes.

Q. And Senator Stanfield advised you to send it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And U'Ren advised you to send it?

A. Yes.

Q. What date did you actually send it?

A. I sent it Sunday.

Q. That is last Sunday?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you hear from Senator Reed, what date, do you recall?

A. Monday morning.

Q. Monday morning?

A. He set it right away, and I was surprised at that, because Fred Boldt had wired him and got no reply.

Q. How many times did you talk to Senator Stanfield, and what efforts did you make to get a verification of these statements?

A. Well, I didn't talk to Senator Stanfield except Thursday night, but Mr. Crain had talked with him before.

Q. Yes.

A. And running these things down, you know, I am too busy, I can't

Q. Mr. Crain is a member of your

A. Yes, staff.

Q. Is employed by you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In the capacity of city editor?

A. Yes. He is pretty good, too.

Q. Do you think of anything that you desire to state in addition to the questions that I have asked you, Mr. Putnam?

A. No; except that my sole idea was to get a thorough investigation of this thing, and the only way we could possibly get it is for the Senate to get it, because it isn't a State matter; it is an interstate matter, and nobody has the power, or no court has the power, or anything else; we had it up with the grand jury, we had it up with John Carson, and he marked time on it, didn't do anything; and Mr. U'Ren wrote letters to the Oregonian and the other papers which we printed, making charges, and we couldn't get anything, we couldn't get anywhere with them at all.

Senator MCNARY. I think that is as far as I desire to question Mr. Putnam. Mr. Logan?

Q. (By Mr. LOGAN.) With reference to that last statement, Mr. Putnam, did you hear Mr. U'Ren's statement that it wasn't a matter for the grand jury?

A. Yes. That was not-that matter though, that was the Steiwer campaign fund matter.

Q. I mean this matter here.

A. What?

Q. This matter-didn't he make a statement to you that this was not a matter for the grand jury?

A. No; he said the Steiwer campaign fund as filed was not a matter for the grand jury, because Steiwer had written across an old date on the thing, exempting the previous stuff.

Q. Now, I will reask my question.

A. Yes.

Q. Did he state to you that this matter of the Oregonian-Electric Power Co. was or was not a matter for the grand jury?

A. He never said one way or the other.

Q. I see. Now, you said, as I got it-and if I am mistaken, kindly

correct me

A. Yes.

Q. That Stanfield told you that it couldn't be investigated until after election?

A. No; that is what he said Thursday-we wouldn't have time to go into the thing before election.

Q. And yet, knowing that it wouldn't be investigated until after election, or supposing upon that statement, you sent the telegram anyway?

A. I sent the telegram anyway, but it would never have been sent hadn't Mr. McNary been holding hearings here.

Q. Now, this man Hayes told you that he would get the dope? A. Yes, he said that he would try to get the dope for us.

Q. This was a hot newspaper story, wasn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. As an experienced newspaper man, you and Mr. Crain both realized it was a good newspaper story?

A. Yes.

Q. Did Senator Stanfield say that he would have the dope gotten for you?

A. No, he said he would try and get it for us.

Q. Now did you go to Senator Stanfield, after you sent this letter, and call his attention to the fact that his friend Hayes had not given you the dope, as he had promised?

A. I didn't see Stanfield until I got here yesterday.

Q. I know, but did you write him about it?

A. No.

Q. Did you phone him about it?

A. No.

Q. Did you have any communication with his headquarters, Mr. Walker, or Mr. Brownell?

A. Brownell called me up after this thing had been printed, and he said that Mr. Stanfield would substantiate it, or do his best to substantiate, in the information that he got, and get what he could; that he had a witness here, he had a witness here from Spokane that would substantiate part of the story.

Q. Oh.

A. But I had never heard of that witness before.

Q. He told you that he would have a witness here from Spokane? A. That is what he told me Monday.

Q. How long prior to this time this was last week, I believe, after this thing was published-that you had this conversation with him?

A. Why, it was only published Monday, last Monday.

Q. All right. Now prior to that did you make any effort through their office or through anybody, calling their attention to the fact that Mr. Hayes had not given you the dope, as he had promised? A. Why, Mr. Crain had; I had not.

Q. I don't get you.

A. Mr. Crain looks after that end of the game. He had.
Q. Had Mr. Crain complained to you that the-

A. Yes; he had complained to me

Q. And had you in turn then

A. (Continuing.) And I sent him up to Portland to see Stanfield on account of it. He testified to all of that.

Q. Now, did you, on your own motion, make efforts through Mr. Stanfield, or any of his representatives, prior to this Monday last. to get this dope, as Mr. Hayes had promised?

A. Well, we had, through Mr. Crain; I did not do it personally; no. Q. Yet it was a hot story, wasn't it?

A. It was a hot story, yes. But, for heaven's sake, did you ever run a country newspaper?

Mr. LOGAN. No; I did not.

A. You haven't time to run down stories. If you did

Q. You are intensively interested in this, aren't you? You had it right from the man who gave it, Mr. Hayes, you knew whom to write to, didn't you?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you wire him at all?

A. No; I did not.

Q. All right.

A. I know the hopelessness of trying to run down a story like that, or a newspaper trying to run it down. They could not get anywhere. Even the Oregonian could not get anywhere on a story like that. [Laughter.]

Q. Did you consider this man Hayes, who had refused to answer your letter, who had not sent you the dope, who had given you no further information, that is the good authority that you referred to in your wire to Senator Reed, it is?

A. Yes; why shouldn't it be?

Mr. LOGAN. That is all.

Senator MCNARY. Mr. Thompson, do you desire to question him? Mr. THOMPSON. No.

Senator MCNARY. Or do you, Mr. Peck?

Mr. PECK. No; I don't care about it.

Senator MCNARY. Do you, Mr. Watkins?

Mr. WATKINS. Mr. U'Ren identified this, and I would like to leave it with the committee, and I would like to make the request that the committee have Mr. Hayes examined in the East and with that we rest.

Senator McNARY. What can not be done at this time will be done at the most favorable opportunity.

Mr. WATKINS. What I thought was that Mr. Reed would have. some one in New York or Philadelphia examine Mr. Hayes.

Senator MCNARY. The committee will give it thorough consideration. You want to file this with the committee?

Mr. WATKINS. We want to file that with the committee.
Senator MCNARY. What is that, a copy of the account?

Mr. WATKINS. Certified copy, certified by the secretary of state.
Mr. THOMPSON. What is that? We want to know what it is.

Mr. WATKINS. It is Mr. Steiwer's account. Now it is with the understanding that you are only going into this phase, though we have the other three phases of it that we want to go in, but if you will let us, we have witnesses here for the other three phases; but these are all the witnesses we have upon this particular phase. Senator MCNARY. Very well, Mr. Watkins.

Mr. U'REN. Put into the record, too, that on this certified copy there are some pencil notes, shorthand notes, memoranda of mine. Mr. WATKINS. They will be rubbed out.

Mr. U'REN. They will be rubbed out and canceled.

Senator McNARY. I understand.

Mr. LOGAN. You have rested?

Mr. WATKINS. Yes, we have; with that understanding of the Senator, that that is all that that will be gone into now.

Mr. LOGAN. In order that Mr. Thompson may resume his peaceful occupation as an attorney, I will make him a witness right away.

TESTIMONY OF W. LAIR THOMPSON

W. LAIR THOMPSON was thereupon produced as a witness and, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Mr. THOMPSON. Shall I proceed as the others have?

Senator MCNARY. Yes, Mr. Thompson. For the record, this is W. Lair Thompson, lawyer, Portland, practicing for a matter of 20 or 25 years, with the firm of McCamant & Thompson. Now, Mr. Thompson, you know what this is all about, and you can make whatever statement you like.

A. Yes. I never either collected for Mr. Steiwer's campaign one dollar, nor contributed one dollar to it. I have never told Ferdinand E. Reed or anyone else that I had ever collected money or contributed to it. There is no intimate relation between Ferdinand E. Reed and myself, and has not been for a number of years. He is a politician, and I attempt to practice law. He usually supports different people than I do for office. I think that is all.

Q. (By Mr. WATKINS.) Do you know of any money that was contributed to the Steiwer campaign fund that went through your hands or other people's hands?

A. Not a sou markee, sir.

Q. You haven't any information directly or indirectly, or otherwise, or at all?

A. I have the information that appears in the statement to be filed, and that is all; nothing to do with this defense at all.

Q. And you say you have no connection, either indirectly or directly, or otherwise, pertaining to money contributed to his campaign fund by anybody?