A. I don't know as to what he wanted along that line, sir. I will tell you what he told me.

Q. And yet you had never met him before?

Senator MCNARY. Pardon me, I don't know-what about wires and telephones? You did not tell me about that.

A. Yes, I did.

Mr. LOGAN. Yes.

A. I say that Mr. Hayes stated that the reason for his coming here personally to Oregon_was

Senator MCNARY. Yes, I understand that.

Q. (By Mr. LOGAN.) He got on a train right away after congratulating Bob on his running as an independent Republican, got on the train, and would not trust it to wires about this very important information; that is the way you got the impression! A. That is the information I gathered, yes; that is what I got. Senator MCNARY. You had never met him before?

A. I had never met him before.

Q. Had Mr. Crain ever met him before?

A. I don't know.

Q. (By Mr. LOGAN.) And yet you, a stranger whom he had never met before, and who didn't know you, as to whether you were garrulous or secretive, he immediately made you his confidante! Mr. WATKINS. That is subject of argument, isn't it?

Mr. LOGAN. Well, you never met him before?

A. I never met Mr. Hayes before, no, Mr. Logan.

Q. Without inquiry as to who you were or how you were to be relied upon, he told you right then and there, after being introduced to you, this proposition, is that it?

A. He did; yes, sir.

Q. Now, have you talked to anybody about it since?

A. With Mr. Putnam.

Q. When did you talk with Mr. Putnam?

A. I don't know the exact dates, but I know that we did discuss it that afternoon.

Q. Of course. Mr. Putnam was right there.

A. Yes.

Q. Did Mr. Putnam seem to know anything about it in the afternoon when you talked again with him, or with Senator Stanfield! A. It was merely a rehash of what took place in the morning, Q. Then in the afternoon of the 10th day of September, 1926, Mr. Putnam knew as much as you knew?

A. I don't know, sir.

Mr. WATKINS. Well, that is a conclusion. We want to get through with this

Senator MCNARY. I will limit this cross examination pretty soon. but we can't proceed according to legal, technical rules, without pleadings.

Mr. LOGAN. I know

Senator MCNARY. And if he wants to develop something that has not been brought out

Mr. WATKINS. Your honor, that calls for conclusions and repeti tions, and it will foreclose us from developing these other phases that

we want.

Mr. LOGAN. I have a purpose, which I will explain to you.

Mr. THOMPSON. The purpose of it is very plain.

Senator MCNARY. What was the question? I didn't hear it.
The REPORTER (reading):

Then, in the afternoon of the 10th of September, 1926, Mr. Putnam knew as much as you knew?-A. I don't know, sir.

Q. (By Mr. LOGAN.) Well, did he or did he not hear all that you heard?

A. "Did he, or did he not?" Who?

Q. Mr. Putnam.

A. May I ask you to repeat the question?
Q. Major, I will put it this way-

Senator MCNARY. I think the major covered it, as far as that goes. Mr. LOGAN. I think he stated to Senator McNary that he was present within 2 or 3 feet and this man spoke very loud. Was he in that situation during all of this conversation? That is, was Mr. Putnam within 2 or 3 feet of this man, Mr. Walter Hayes, was speaking loud?

A. He was; yes, sir.

Q. Now, in the afternoon, when there was a rehash, did or did. not Mr. Putnam show as much knowledge of the matter in his conversation as you apparently knew about it?

A. He merely repeated practically what was told by Mr. Hayes. Q. I see. And was it practically what you were told by Mr. A. Practically what I was told; yes, sir.

Senator MCNARY. I think he covered that, Mr. Logan.

Mr. LOGAN. I think he did. Well, I want to make it plain.
Senator McNARY. Yes.

Q. (By Mr. LOGAN.) Now, Senator Stanfield, was he in the same position that Mr. Putnam was, to hearing it?

A. Senator Stanfield was removed probably a foot and a half from Mr. Putnam.

Q. Did you discuss it in the afternoon in the same way with Senator Stanfield as you did with Mr. Putnam?

A. No, sir; I did not.

Q. Did you discuss it with Senator Stanfield any time thereafter? A. I don't recall having done so.

Q. Did Hayes state to you that he had told or discussed the matter with Senator Stanfield?

A. He did not; no, sir.

Q. Now, in this matter with Crain, who was present in that conversation?

A. Hayes, Crain, and myself.

Q. Did you discuss that with Mr. Putnam afterwards?

A. I don't recall. I may have done so.

Q. Was this conversation you had with Mr. Putnam after the conversation with Crain and Hayes?

A. It was; yes.

Q. Now, did it occur to you to give publicity to this while Mr. Hayes was in Oregon?

A. It did not; no, sir.

Q. Did you discuss that phase of the matter with Mr. Putnam or with Senator Stanfield?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know how long Mr. Hayes has been in Oregon?

A. I do not; no, sir.

Q. Do you know whether or not he has been in Oregon up to a week or two ago?

A. I do not.

Q. You don't know?

A. I do not.

Senator MCNARY. I think that covers the proposition all right. You may retire.

Mr. PECK. I would just like to ask one question. Was anyone else present at the first meeting other than you and Senator Stanfield and Mr.

Mr. THOMPSON. Putnam and Hayes?

A. No one other at the beginning; no.

Q. (By Mr. PECK.) Was anybody else present at that meeting at all?

A. Subsequently Mr. Crain came in, and then after that Jim Linn.
Q. Jim Linn?

A. Of Salem.

Q. Crain and Jim Linn came in subsequently?

A. Yes.

Q. Who is Mr. Crain?

A. Mr. Crain is the city editor of the Capital Journal, in Salem. Q. Now, from the time that you came into this conversation until you got through, how long a period of time had elapsed?

A. May I get that question, please?

Q. From the time that you entered into the conversation, when you were first introduced to Mr. Hayes, until the time that you got through, when Mr. Jim Linn came in and you got through with the conversation, what time elapsed?

A. I judge probably half an hour.

Q. Half an hour?

A. Not to exceed half an hour.

Q. And during that time this thing was repeated again to Jim Linn?

A. No; I didn't state that, sir.

Q. I understood you to say that it was

A. I said it was repeated to Harry Crain.

Q. Jim Linn was there then?

A. No.

Q. Then you didn't hear it repeated to Jim Linn at all?

A. No.

Senator MCNARY. He has covered that all right. No use of questioning and requestioning when the committee understands the testimony, I think.

Mr. PECK. Very well.

Senator MCNARY. Very well, Major.

(Witness excused.)

Mr. WATKINS. Mr. Crain, take the stand.

TESTIMONY OF HARRY N. CRAIN

HARRY N. CRAIN was thereupon produced as a witness, and, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Q. (By Senator MCNARY.) You are connected with the Salem Journal?

!

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In what capacity?

A. Managing editor.

Q. How long have you been connected with the Journal?

A. Seven and a half years.

Q. Were you present this year, namely, on the 10th of September. when Mr. Walter Hayes and Senator Stanfield were present and discussed the subject matter now under investigation?

A. I was.

Q. Go right along in your own way and tell the committee just what you heard and what was said, and the circumstances surrounding it.

A. I first heard that Senator Stanfield was in town and that he would probably-that we could probably find him at the court room, where a grand jury investigation was going along relative to allegations and charges that had been made by Mr. U'Ren. I went to the courthouse to find Mr. Stanfield and was there for probably, I would say, 30 or 40 minutes. Then somebody-I don't recallSenator MCNARY. Speak loudly, Mr. Crain.

A. Somebody, I don't recall now who, came to the courthouse and said they had just come by the Capital Journal office and that Senator Stanfield was there, so I immediately returned to the Capital Journal office. When I came in I was introduced, or I met and shook hands with Senator Stanfield, and we conversed for perhaps two or three minutes, in which I interviewed him on some topics that I had in mind pertinent to his political campaign. It was purely a professional proposition-that I was seeking an interview with him on certain subjects-and at the conclusion of that, or, rather, it wasn't at the conclusion, but in the course of our conversation, he broke in and called Walter Hayes, who was standing somemaybe 8 or 10 feet away conversing with--I believe with Major Simpson, but he was conversing with somebody there, while Mr. Putnam, Senator Stanfield, and myself were standing in a group near the front door, approximately 8-say 8 or-6 or 8 feet fromSenator Stanfield called Walter Hayes over to where we were standing and introduced him to me as an official of a trust company or surety company in New York City and its representative in Washington, D. C., and as the private secretary to Theodore Roosevelt for several years.

Senator Stanfield told me, or made some remark to the effect, that Walter Hayes was here; had heard of his entry or his proposed entry into the senatorial race as an independent Republican candidate, or as an independent candidate, and had brought Westhad come West immediately and brought some information that was probably very valuable to Mr. Stanfield, and that he came as a personal friend to assist him and to advise him of certain facts.

Now, I asked Senator Stanfield what those facts were and the Senator replied that " You had better speak to Mr. Hayes," or words to that effect.

We conversed in a group for a few moments longer and then Mr. Hayes and I stepped to one side and I asked Mr. Hayes what this information was that he had. He said: "The information that I have, and that I have brought out here, came out here to bring, is that the parent company of the Portland Railway Light & Power

Co. and other electrical corporations interested in the East had sent two checks-or two sums of money-one for $10,000 and one for $25,000, to Franklin T. Griffith, of the Portland Railway, Light & Power Co., on the represenutation of Franklin T. Griffith to these parties that he had been solicited for this money by Edgar B. Piper, the editor of the Oregonian." He said that this money was sent West and was paid by Mr. Griffith to the Oregonian.

I asked Mr. Hayes if he had definite information to that effect. if he had first-hand information to that effect, and could provide the names of the parties who sent the money, the means in which the money was sent, and to whom it was sent, and by whom it was received on the Oregonian. I told him I-that if we could get that information, that if that were true and could be substantiated, we would publish it as a matter of news, and I was interested in getting it, and he said, "I can do that, but I am not ready to do that right now, but I will provide you with this information."

Right about there Mr. Hayes and I joined the group who were talking close to the door, including Senator Stanfield; and I mentioned something, as I remember it, to Senator Stanfield, to the effect that I would like to have confirmation-I had this information from Mr. Hayes and would like to have confirmation of it, or any confirmation that they might have, as soon as possible, in order that we might run the story; that it was a good story, a good news story. and we would like to use it; but Senator Stanfield said something to the effect that that was the reason they came to Salem, because he knew George Putnam was the only editor in Oregon that had the guts that's what he said-to print it.

Subsequent to that-now, Senator, do you want me to confine my remarks simply to this, or shall I elaborate and tell what I have done in the matter of trying to substantiate this?

Senator MCNARY. I want you to follow up the subject matter, and be frank with the committee, and tell everything that you know about it, and your part in it, throughout.

A. Immediately after that Senator Stanfield-I asked Senator Stanfield then if I could have a conference or an interview with him and Mr. Hayes in private, so we could get together, and I wanted to go over this thing a little more thoroughly with him. He said no; that that wouldn't be possible right now, because they were rushing right back to Portland; they had matters to attend to in Portland, that Mr. Hayes was leaving on the 4 o'clock train that afternoon to return to New York City, but would probably be back later in the campaign, and that he would see that I was provided with the information that I sought.

After Senator Stanfield and Mr. Hayes had left I returned to the courthouse. I met Mr. U'Ren as he came out of the grand jury room. I asked him questions, if I remember aright, concerning this yellowticket proposition, but I don't think that I mentioned this proposition. In fact, I know I didn't mention it, because at that time.

Later, probably 15 minutes, I met the district attorney, John Carson, on the steps of the courthouse at Salem. He was just coming out of the grand jury hearing, and we stopped and talked for a moment, and then he got in my car and I drove him home to his lunch, and on the way we were discussing various matters of politics, but I mentioned at that time that Walter Hayes had made a state