The CHAIRMAN. You made no agreement to appoint a man named Claude Worley? Mr. DUVALL. No, sir. Claude Worley is Inspector of Detectives under my administration at the present time. The CHAIRMAN. But you had no agreement? Mr. DUVALL. There is no agreement to appoint him, with anyone. The CHAIRMAN. I anticipated that that would be your answer, but I thought as a matter of fairness that you ought to be allowed to state it. As I say, it is outside of my business, and it is only remotely, at least, related to this question that I am investigating. I think, mayor, that is all I desire to ask you, and I am very much obliged to you for your courtesy. Mr. DUVALL. I think you. I can go now? The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I will hear the mayor of Evansville-Mr. Males. TESTIMONY OF HERBERT MALES (The witness was sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Please give your full name to the reporter. The CHAIRMAN. You are the mayor of Evansville, Ind.? The CHAIRMAN. How long have you held that position? Mr. MALES. Since January 1, 1926. The CHAIRMAN. Could you hear the testimony of the mayor of Indianapolis, who just left the stand? Mr. MALES. Just now and then. The CHAIRMAN. You could not hear it all. Well, I may ask you a question or two. Mr. MALES. I do not recall just what I did hear, but I heard him say something. The CHAIRMAN. There was a trip made in the latter part of December to Washington, was there not? Mr. MALES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you were on that trip? Mr. MALES. I was on that trip, but not with the mayor of Indianapolis. The CHAIRMAN. Who went with you? Mr. MALES. Joe Huffington. get I The CHAIRMAN. How did you come to make that trip, Mayor? Mr. MALES. I started to make a trip right after the election, to away from town more than anything else, and Joe said to me, am going to Washington. Come and go with me." And later he. said, There will be some one at Indianapolis-two or three of the boys going to Washington." The CHAIRMAN. What boys? Mr. MALES. I found out later it was McNay, I think, and the mayor of Indianapolis, John Duvall, and that is about all I remember; and Walter Bossert was there. The CHAIRMAN. Walter Bossert. When you speak of "the boys," whom do you mean; members of the klan? Mr. MALES. I do not know. He just referred to them as boys." 103434-26-PT 325 "the The CHAIRMAN. Did you understand it to mean some members of the klan? Mr. MALES. I did; yes. The CHAIRMAN. You are a member of the klan, I suppose? Mr. MALES. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. When you spoke of the boys, you meant your boys or associates in this organization? Mr. MALES. He spoke of the boys." The CHAIRMAN. That is what you understood him to mean? The CHAIRMAN. So you went with Huffington and who else? The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what day you arrived in Washington? Mr. MALES. I do not remember the date; no, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What time in the morning; what train? Mr. MALES. I think we arrived there—we tried either to catch the American or New Yorker out of Terre Haute. We caught a slow train, however, and had to lay over at Indianapolis to catch the next train there. The CHAIRMAN. Did anybody get on at Indianapolis who became part of your party? Mr. MALES. Not that I recall; no, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember about what time you got to Washington? Mr. MALES. I think it was along-I think it was in the afternoon. The CHAIRMAN. That was in the afternoon of the same day previous to the time of the arrival of the mayor of Indianapolis, was it? Mr. MALES. No; I think he had arrived at Washington before I did. The CHAIRMAN. Where did you go when you got to Washington? Mr. MALES. Went to the hotel. I don't know whether it is the Willard Hotel. The CHAIRMAN. There is such a hotel there. Mr. MALES. That is the one. The CHAIRMAN. And you and Huffington put up there? Mr. MALES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you go over to the klan headquarters? The CHAIRMAN. That same day? Mr. MALES. I think so; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any conversation over there? Mr. MALES. Not I. I sat in the building, in the office. There was quite a number of people coming and going, going in, and in a few minutes Mr. Huffington came out and said we would take a little ride. I think that was the day. The CHAIRMAN. Who went with you on the ride? Mr. MALES. Huffington. The CHAIRMAN. Anybody else? Mr. MALES. The chauffer; some chauffer. The CHAIRMAN. And was that the day you had lunch at the Mayflower? Mr. MALES. No-I think so. I am not positive about that. I do not know whether it was the day before or the day after the lunch. I was at the lunch, I know that. The CHAIRMAN. You were at the lunch? Mr. MALES. I was at the lunch. The CHAIRMAN. If you did not get in that day-that afternoonit was the day before? Mr. MALES. I may have gotten in the day before. I am not clear on that. The CHAIRMAN. You did not sit in with any conference down at the headquarters? Mr. MALES. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You did sit in at the conference at the lunch? The CHAIRMAN. And what were you all meeting there for? Mr. MALES. The special matter was with reference to Judge Orbison-Charles Orbison. They discussed it; I paid but very little attention to the discussion. While I was interested in Charley Orbison, a good friend of mine, I did not pay very much attention to it, and it was soon over. I don't think the discussion lasted The CHAIRMAN. Who took part in that discussion? Mr. MALES. There was Mr. Bossert and McNay and Duvall and Joe Huffington and Doctor Evans. The CHAIRMAN. What were they trying to accomplish? Mr. MALES. Trying to have Judge Orbison appointed corporation lawyer, or attorney. The CHAIRMAN. In Indianapolis? Mr. MALES. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Were you reimbursed for your expenses, or were your expenses arranged down there and back, or any part of them? Mr. MALES. I do not recall now. I recall paying my fare to Terre Haute and into Indianapolis; and I think I paid the fare-I am not positive; but I remember paying some money out, and I think I paid the fare-to Washington. The CHAIRMAN. Did you get it back, or were you furnished transportation? Mr. MALES. No: Mr. Huffington paid it back. Really, I went there as his guest. That is the way he put it up to me, "To go with me to Washington as my guest." The CHAIRMAN. He would probably pay the fare, if you were his guest? Mr. MALES. I do not think he paid it going up. The CHAIRMAN. Who paid the hotel bills? Mr. MALES. I think I did. The CHAIRMAN. You think you did? Mr. MALES. I think I did, because I do not think I know he said he did not have any money: that he would get something at headquarters; I think something like that. The CHAIRMAN. Did he afterwards reimburse you, or were you afterwards reimbursed by anybody? Mr. MALES. Not that I can recall now. It strikes me that I was given some money by Joe, but I do not know just how much it was. I do not remember. The CHAIRMAN. You think he did give you some money? Mr. MALES. He reimbursed me on something. I do not know just what it was for, now. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know how much, do you? Mr. MALES. No. I can not recall that amount; I thought nothing of it at the time. The CHAIRMAN. Did Doctor Evans do any talking at this dinner? Mr. MALES. Yes; he talked to the Mayor Duvall. The CHAIRMAN. He talked for Orbison, did he? Mr. MALES. It strikes me that he talked against Orbison-didn't know why Orbison should want it. The CHAIRMAN. Who, Evans? Mr. MALES. Evans, if my memory is clear. I may be wrong, but I think I recall him saying at one time that he did not see why Judge Orbison wanted it. The CHAIRMAN. Did he say he was going to give him some job? Mr. MALES. No, he never said. The CHAIRMAN. He did get a job, did he not? Mr. MALES. I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Do you not know he is an officer of the Ku-Klux Klan? Mr. MALES. No, sir: not of my own knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. Have you not heard it and understood it through klan circles? Mr. MALES. I have, through Huffington, mostly; I do not know whether he is on the pay roll or not. The CHAIRMAN. No; but he has a job? Mr. MALES. I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Did you learn from Huffington that something had been done for him? Mr. MALES. I heard those things. The CHAIRMAN. Certainly; we know a great many things by hearsay. Mr. MALES. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. There is a difference between a rumor and a general public understanding, or an understanding among an organi zation Mr. MALES. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. That a certain man holds a certain position. Now, taking that latter definition, you did understand and do understand that Judge Orbison has some position with the klan, do you not? Mr. MALES. Not of my own knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. Well Mr. MALES. I don't know. The CHAIRMAN. But you have been informed of that through klan circles? Mr. MALES. I have heard that, yes. The CHAIRMAN. That he did; from your friend Huffington? The CHAIRMAN. You are not very active in the klan just now? The CHAIRMAN. We will now adjourn the hearing until 2 o'clock p. m. (At 12 o'clock m. a recess was taken until 2 o'clock p. m.) AFTERNOON SESSION The committee reconvened, pursuant to the taking of the recess, at 2 o'clock p. m., Senator Reed of Missouri (chairman) presiding. TESTIMONY OF MARK E. WININGS (The witness was sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Please state your name. The CHAIRMAN. And your residence, please? Mr. WININGS. Elwood, Ind. The CHAIRMAN. What is your occupation or business? Mr. WININGS. I am at this time street agent for the London Gravo Co., of London, Ohio. The CHAIRMAN. What is its business? Mr. WININGS. Steel barrels. ciation or The CHAIRMAN. Have you ever had any connection with any assoorganization that has been operating in the State of Indiana in the interest of the World Court or League of Nations propaganda? Mr. WININGS. I never had any connection with any organization, but I have had considerable correspondence. The CHAIRMAN. But no connection? Mr. WININGS. No, sir. I do not believe in it. The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever make a statement to the effect that there were 800 bankers or capitalists who had pledged a thousand dollars apiece Mr. WININGS. $10,000. The CHAIRMAN. $10,000 to involve the United States in either the World Court or the League of Nations? Mr. WININGS. I never did. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of any fact of that kind existing? Mr. WININGS. Not eight billion; got subscriptions of $10,000? Mr. WININGS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. What is that evidence? Mr. WININGS. May I read it, sir? The CHAIRMAN. Is it in letters? Mr. WININGS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Would you let me see the letters? Mr. WININGS. With your permission, I can lead up to that. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. WININGS. By reading correspondence— The CHAIRMAN. I am interested only in the fact that a lot of money is said to have been employed, or the fact a lot of literature was issued to be used in the State of Indiana of any other State, directly or indirectly, in the election of United States Senators? Mr. WININGS. I think I can show you that. The CHAIRMAN. We heard the story that there was a large sum of money-eight billion or eight million; and the statement was made by Mr. Walb. He stated that $8,000,000 had been raised or pledged, |