APRIL 22, 1790.]

Public Credit.

[H. OF R.

that the measure will be favorable to the interest be made between the inhabitants of one State of Virginia; but he seems to me to have ground- and those of another, and that no oppressions or ed his opinion on the erroneous supposition embarrassments should force the people to emithat the proposed plan will embrace the whole grate from one State to another. It would be of the debts as they existed at the close of the a comfortable reflection, if every part of the war, or that the State of Virginia will contribute Union could be assimilated in this instance; less, on the plan of deriving revenue from con- but, sir, I think we have no authority to sacrisumption, than she would if derived according fice essential considerations to obtain these adto the constitutional ratio. I believe, on the vantages. Nor do I know that we should obcontrary, that if the assumption should take tain them by assuming the State debts. Supplace as originally proposed, that there would posing that measure to be adopted, let us reflect be a claim on Virginia for five millions, whereas what would be the situation of the different if there is no assumption, her citizens will have parts of the Union? I do not, at this moment, to provide for about three millions only; and consider the question as it respects justice, thus, instead of bearing her proper burthen, right, or general policy, but in reference merely which is about one-seventh, she would have to to the particular consequence of equalizing the bear a burthen in the ratio of one-fifth. He circumstances of the people. Let us take a seems to think that his own particular district view, comparatively, of the people of the United would be benefited by this measure; but if he States. Massachusetts owes a debt of several be right in his other opinion, that that part of millions. The public debt, when you come to the State will consume more than the other analyze it, at least where it is due to citizens parts, he will find, sir, that instead of relieving and not to foreigners, is a debt from one part of his constituents, compared with the rest of the the people to the other. The Government is State, that he would still more augment their the collector from the pockets of the debtors, to burthens; so that it would come to this at last, pay it into the hands of the creditors. If, sir, that the State would have to pay five millions the State debts should be assumed, Massachuinstead of three-and that the particular part of setts will then get rid of her embarrassments; the State he represents, instead of paying their but what would be the situation of Virginia? proportion of three millions, would have to pay | Besides her public debt, I believe that her citimore than their proportion of five. I admit, zens owe, one to another, debts to an amount however, that he is the most proper judge on equal to the whole public debt of Massachuthat subject. But the citizens of Virginia would setts. Perhaps, I might say to the amount of not only be called upon when already in ad- both the public and private debts of that State. vance, and to an amount beyond their proper In addition to all this, the people of Virginia ratio, but in a mode that is peculiarly obnoxious are indebted to foreigners to a greater amount to them, I mean that of excise. Sir, the people than the whole debt of Massachusetts. Sir, I of that State are as averse to excises as those of firmly believe, that though Virginia is less opany other State can be to direct taxes, and in pressed with public debt than Massachusetts, my own judgment, with far more reason, where yet, when we take a view of all the difficulties the article excised is not by some peculiarity she labors under, and weigh them against those free from the common objections. Excises are of Massachusetts, it will be found that Virginia unequal with respect to different parts of the ought to be relieved herself, instead of being Union. They are also unequal to various parts expected to relieve others. of the same State. This mode of collection gives But, supposing all objections of another naarbitrary powers to the Collectors, and exposes ture to be laid aside, I freely confess that after our citizens to vexatious searches. It opens a a more minute examination into the subject, I door to frauds and perjuries, that tend equally am much inclined to doubt whether the assumpto vitiate the morals of the people, and to de- tion can possibly be carried into execution. feat the public revenue. Besides, sir, excises Difficulties are continually arising when I surare more expensive in the collection than other vey this question, for which I can find no solukinds of taxes. The collection of the excise in tion, without departing from every principle by Great Britain costs ten per cent. That of her which we ought to be guided. It never yet has direct taxes is computed at three per cent. only. been shown in what manner a remedy could be I will not positively say that a similar dispro- provided for a partial subscription. Suppose portion in the expense of collecting would be the State creditors were part of them to subincurred in this country; but in some parts of scribe and part to refuse. Suppose those of one it, I am sure that the expense of excises would State subscribe, and those of another should be greatest, and on some articles in view not. Again, sir, by what method would you would, if the collection were made at all, ex-discriminate the debts that come under the deceed the revenue obtained from it. finition from those that will be excluded by it? Sir, there has been an argument of another Where will you invest this important discrekind advanced in support of the assumption. tionary power? I really think that great diffiGentlemen have thought it a matter of conse-culties will be found before this can be effected. quence, that not only justice should be done, but that the condition of the people should be equalized; that no invidious comparisons might

There is another objection, to which I have never heard a satisfactory answer, although it has been repeatedly urged by a member from

H. OF R.]

Public Debt.

[APRIL 23, 1790.

I cannot finish my observations on this subject, sir, without adverting to one particular, which I would wish gentlemen to attend to, not so inuch for our sakes as their own. I would recommend to them no longer to assume a preeminence over us in the nationality of their motives; and that they would forbear those frequent assertions, that if the State debts are not provided for, the Federal debts shall also go unprovided for; nay, that if the State debts are not assumed, the Union will be endangeredSir, I am persuaded that if the gentlemen knew the motives which govern us, they would blush at such intemperate as well as inconsistent language. I am sure, that if they knew the emotions with which it is heard, they would at least see the inutility of it. I hope, sir, that whatever may be the decision on this question of assumption, that patriotism and every other noble and generous motive will lead the minority to acquiesce in measures which will tend to establish public credit by a due provision for the public The Committee then rose.

Georgia. There are debts existing in some of ner contrary to every idea of prudence. It is the States that do not bear interest, that have very true, sir, that a variety of funds have been got into circulation without any title to it, and proposed, yet they are nothing more than mere have been received by the present holders with-suggestions, and though I think they are as good out any other expectation than that, in some as could be expected in the time, I really bereasonable time, the principal would be paid. lieve that some of them, at least, if they can be Would it, sir, be proper or necessary to consi- carried into execution at all, will disappoint the der these as debts of the Union, bearing interest, calculations on which they are founded. or to provide for the immediate funding of them? But there is a case, in my opinion, far more difficult, I mean the paper money issued to redeem the State debts. The State of North Carolina has taken up its certificates with these paper bills. They are not proposed to be included in the assumption. They are clearly excluded by the present motion, yet they are as much a State debt to be sunk by taxes as certificates, and the taxes may as much interfere with those of other States. Some of the States, sir, have not only assumed the debts recommended by Congress for making up the depreciation to the army, but they have gone further and have made up the depreciation, where it was not recommended. Other States have not done this. The debts existing in some States, I take it for granted, comprehend these depreciated notes. Would it not be unjust to call on those States that have not made this provision for their army that other States have done, would it not be hard to call upon those officers and soldiers who have not received this addi-engagements. tional compensation, to pay it to those of other States, who have? I would not here be understood to censure the States that made this compensation; I rather commend them for it. It is a proof of their magnanimity and justice that does them honor; but, at the same time, this does not alter the nature of the objection. In some States in order to reward the army, they have Mr. AMES rose and said, that previous to tadone it by several aids that do not constitute king up the order of the day, he wished to introany part of the State debts. In some of the duce a motion for the consideration of the States, there are debts still unliquidated. If House. He observed, that it had been assertyou declare that, when liquidated, they shall be ed in the course of the debates on the assumpassumed, you afford a temptation that has been tion of the State debts, that the State of Virhitherto cautiously avoided, that of making the ginia had advanced for the common defence beStates less exact in the settlement of their ac-yond her proportion; advantage appeared to be counts. I do not find that any gentleman has proposed, on the contrary most of them seem to have rejected, the idea of making provision at this session for fulfilling the engagement in case we enter into an assumption. I think it would be a powerful and unanswerable objection against assuming the State debts at this time, that we do not see, or are not prepared to decide on the means of providing for them. There is not a more important and fundamental principle in Legislation, than that the ways and means ought always to face the public engagements; that our appropriations should go hand in hand with our promises. To say that the United States should be answerable for twenty. five millions of dollars without knowing whether the ways and means can be provided, and without knowing whether those who are to succeed us will think with us on the subject, would be rash and unjustifiable. Sir, in my opinion, it would be hazarding the public faith in a man

FRIDAY, April 23.

PUBLIC DEBT.

A motion being made to take up the order of the day,

taken of such assertions; he thought it necessary that facts should be known, that the Committee might act with certainty in conducting this important question. He therefore moved the following in substance, viz: "that the Secretary for the Department of War be directed to lay before the House a statement of the troops, including the militia, and ordnance stores, furnished by the respective States for the general defence during the late war."

This motion was opposed,as tending to procrastinate the funding business, and as leading to excite invidious comparisons respecting the rel ative merits and exertions of the several States. It was, however, carried in the affirmative, with this addition proposed by Mr. BLAND, "and that the Commissioners of accounts between the United States and individual States be directed to furnish an abstract of the claims of the several States against the United States, specifying the principles on which the claims

Mr. FITZSIMONS moved, "that the Committee of the whole should, for the present, be dis-interest of six per cent. redeemable at the plesaure charged from further proceedings on that part of the Government by payment of the principal, of the Report of the Secretary of the Treasu- and to receive the other third in lands in the Westry which relates to the assumption of the State ern Territory, at the rate of twenty cents per acre— debts."

Tariff of Duties.

Mr. GERRY proposed a resolution, that a committee, to consist of a member from each State, and an equal number for and against the assumption, be appointed to consider of, and report a plan of accommodation on this sub-to ject.

This motion was laid on the table for further consideration.

Upon every gallon more than ten per cent. below proof, according to Dicas's hydrometer, nine cents. Upon every gallon of those spirits under five, and not more than ten per cent. below proof, acUpon every gallon of Madeira wine called Lon-cording to the same hydrometer, ten cents. don particular, thirty-five cents.

APRIL 30, 1790.]

Sundry Bills.

Upon every gallon of those spirits, above proof, but not exceeding twenty per cent. according to the same hydrometer, thirteen cents.

Upon every gallon of those spirits more than twenty, and not more than forty per cent. above proof, according to the same hydrometer, seventeen cents.

Upon every gallon of those spirits, more than forty per cent. above proof, according to the same hydrometer, twenty-five cents.

And upon all stills employed in distilling spirits from materials of the growth or production of the United States, in any other place than a city, town, or village, there be paid the yearly sum of sixty cents for every gallon, English wine measure, of the capacity of each still, including its head; or-cents per gallon for all spirits distilled from grain; or — cents per gallon for all spirits distilled from fruit."

SUNDRY BILLS.

[H. of R.

The bills sent from the Senate, for the government of the Territory of the United States south of the river Ohio, with amendments, and to regulate Processes in the Courts of the United States, were read the third time and passed. A petition from the manufacturers of Cordage in the city of Philadelphia was presented, praying that a further duty may be imposed on the importation of foreign cordage. Referred.

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in to authorize the issuing certificates to a certain description of invalid Officers; and that Messrs. BURKE, CONTEE, and COLES prepare the same.

Ordered, That a bill be brought in for the government and regulation of seamen in the merchants' service; and that Messrs. FITZSIMONS, SMITH, of Maryland, and STURGES pre

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolutions, and that Mr. FITZSIMONS, Mr. HUNTINGTON, Mr. JACK-pare the same. SON, Mr. CONTEE, and Mr. BLOODWORTH, do prepare and bring in the same.

WEDNESDAY, April 28.

FORFEITURES AND PENALTIES. The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole on the bill to provide for mitigating or remitting the forfeitures and penalties accruing under the Revenue laws. The Committee reported the bill to the House without amend ment, and it was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.

TERRITORY SOUTHWEST OF THE OHIO.

The House also went into a Committee on the bill from the Senate, for the government of the Territory of the United States south of the river Ohio. The Committee reported this bill without amendment, when the House amended it, and ordered it to be read a third time to

morrow.

AUTHENTICATION OF RECORDS. Mr. PAGE, from the Committee appointed for the purpose, presented a bill to prescribe the mode in which the public acts, records, and ju

FOREIGN INTERCOURSE.

The House proceeded to consider the report of the Committee of the whole, of yesterday, on the bill providing the means of intercourse between the United States and foreign nations; and the same being agreed to, the bill, as amended, was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.

SALARIES OF EXECUTIVE OFFICERS.

The House went into Committees of the whole on the bill supplemental to the act for establishing the salaries of the Executive Officers of Government, with their assistants and Clerks; and on the bill for the encouragement of learning, by securing the copies of maps, charts, books, and other writings, to the authors and proprietors, Mr. SENEY in the Chair, and made several amendments in each; which being reported to the House, were severally concurred with, and the bills were ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.

FRIDAY, April 30.

SUNDRY BILLS.

The following engrossed bills received their dicial proceedings in each State shall be authen-third reading, and were passed, viz: The bill ticated, which was twice read and committed.

INDIAN TRIBES.

The House resolved itself into a Committee on the bill to regulate trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes, Mr. LIVERMORE in the Chair. After some time spent thereon, the Committee rose and reported progress; when, on motion, the Committee of the whole was discharged from a further consideration thereof, and the bill was recommitted to Messrs. WADSWORTH, BROWN, BOUDINOT, BURKE, BALDWIN, LIVER MORE, AMES, LAWRENCE, SCOTT, SMITH, (of Maryland,) SUMTER, and STEEle.

THURSDAY, April 29.

FORFEITURES AND PENALTIES.

The engrossed bill to provide for mitigating or remitting the forfeitures and penalties accruing under the Revenue laws, was read the third time and passed.

supplemental to the act for establishing the salaries of the Executive Officers of the Government, with their assistants and Clerks; the bill providing the means of intercourse between the United States and foreign nations; and the bill for the encouragement of learning, by securing the copies of maps, charts, books, and other writings to the authors and proprietors.

A petition from sundry inhabitants of Morris County, in New Jersey, was presented, praying that additional duties may be imposed on the importation of Copperas, Vitriol, Spanish Brown, Venetian Red, and Yellow Ochre. Referred.

The SPEAKER laid before the House the report of the Commissioners for settling accounts between the United States and individual States, in pursuance of an order of the House, which was laid on the table.

Mr. GERRY, from the Committee appointed for the purpose, presented a bill for finally ad