Business and Defense Services Administration, he will then give consideration as to whether or not he will appear before this committee. I don't know whether the Secretary wants to appear before this committee or does not want to appear and we have no answer from him. I am reminded of the story that comes out of Alice in Wonderland, where we have the Mad Hatters at the party and Alice at the table asks the White Queen for jam, and the White Queen says, "Jam yesterday, jam tomorrow, but never jam today." So the Secretary probably would appear yesterday and probably will appear tomorrow, but never appear today.

Mr. SCOTT. May I supplement that with another story that you and I had the pleasure of hearing the other day from a gentleman from North Dakota about the man who was headed toward an execution. The roads were pretty muddy and he said to his freinds, "You don't have to get into a tizzy about this because there ain't going to be a hanging until I get there."

Mr. RODINO. Mr. Chairman, are we to understand then that the Secretary of Commerce will not appear before this committee?

The CHAIRMAN. I don't know. If you can glean from what the Secretary says that he will or will not appear, you are a better man than I am. I don't think he tells us.

I remember years ago, Hugh, I got a wire from a very irate constituent who said, "I demand to know forthwith whether you are for or against the draft," and I wired back, "I certainly am." So I don't know where the Secretary stands.

Mr. SCOTT. It is like, Mr. Chairman, the Member of Congress who was speaking for quite a while and someone says, "What is he talking about?" and the other fellow says, "He didn't say."

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask Mr. Honeywell, has the Department furnished us with material that we have asked? Is that your big bundle on the desk there?

Mr. HONEYWELL. Mr. McClure is representing Mr. Ray today and he has brought with him additional material which the committee has requested and he also has a statement which he would like to make at this time.

Mr. MCCLURE. Kenneth McClure, Assistant General Counsel for Domestic Affairs, Office of General Counsel, Department of Commerce. STATEMENT OF KENNETH MCCLURE, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL FOR DOMESTIC AFFAIRS, OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

Mr. MCCLURE. Mr. Ray regretted he was unable to be here, Mr. Chairman. He had to go to the White House.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Ray explained to me he had to go to the White House this morning and I indicated I would be perfectly agreeable to have someone substitute for him. We are glad to have you substitute for him.

Mr. MCCLURE. Thank you very much.

He has sent a letter to you this morning that I would like to read. It is very brief, just a page.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Attached is a detailed report showing the progress made to date by this Department in its efforts to assemble the extensive information called for in your various letters of request on behalf of the subcommittee. Some

of the information is being transmitted herewith as shown in the attached report. This material together with that previously transmitted represents a substantial portion of the information requested.

I again assure you this Department has every intention to be helpful to the subcommittee and to that end has devoted the time and knowledge of many officers and employees. The record will, I am confident, testify to the extensive and sincere efforts which the Department has made and is making in this respect I hope that the subcommittee will take account of the circumstances that its requests as well as its hearings came in the hectic closing days of a very strenuous session of the Congress.

I might say that the status report which is attached was found to be 15 pages because we had to have it that long to indicate the status of the item. I thought I would give the material to the staff. (The matter referred to is as follows:)

Hon. EMANUEL CELLER,

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE,
OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL,
Washington, July 29, 1955.

Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary,

House of Representatives.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Attached is a detailed report showing the progress made to date by this Department in its effort to assemble the extensive information called for in your various letters of request on behalf of the subcommittee. Some of this information is being transmitted herewith as shown on the attached report. This material, together with that previously transmitted, represents a substantial portion of the information requested.

I again assure you that this Department has every intention to be helpful to the subcommittee and to that end has devoted the time and energy of many officers and employees. The record will, I am confident, testify to the extensive and sincere effort which the Department has made and is making in this respect. I hope that the subcommittee will take account of the circumstance that its requests as well as its hearings come in the hectic closing days of a very strenuous session of the Congress.

Sincerely yours,

PHILIP A. RAY, General Counsel.
JULY 29, 1955.

SUMMARY AND STATUS OF REQUESTS OF REPRESENTATIVE CELLER RE INDUSTRY ADVISORY GROUPS, WITHOUT COMPENSATION PERSONNEL, AND OTHER MATTERS Letter of March 7, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "The membership lists since January 1, 1953, of advisory committees and task force groups of industry advisory committees with identification of the company, firm, or business of association of the appointee at the time of appointment"-complied with in transmittal letters date March 29, 1955, and April 12,

1955.

2. "Minutes of industry advisory committee meetings held since January 1, 1953"-complied with in transmittal letters dated March 29, 1955, and April 12, 1955.

3. "Minutes of meetings of task force groups of industry advisory committees held since January 1, 1953"-complied with in transmittal letters dated March 29, 1955, and April 12, 1955.

Letter of June 29, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "Would you kindly supply what the New York Journal of Commerce on Tuesday, June 28, described as a list of some 1,500 alumni of wartime defense agencies now in private business and presumably available for another call to Washington. At the same time, would you indicate the name of the company of each individual involved and the position previously filled in the United States Government" complied with in transmittal letter dated July 26, 1955.

2. "Would you kindly supply a copy of all press releases and speeches issued or delivered by the Department of Commerce or officials thereof relating to establishment, functions, and operation of the Business and Defense Services 67271-55-pt. 1-29

Administration from 1953 to date"-complied with in transmittal letter dated July 21, 1955.

3. "Would you be kind enough to supply a chart or table indicating all Division Directors, Deputy Directors, and Assistant Directors of the BDSA, indicating whether such personnel are full-time Government employees or WOC's; if the latter, the company affiliation and position occupied, and period of service in BDSA"-complied with in transmittal letter date July 21, 1955.

4. "A list of all WOC's which have been employed since the establishment of the BDSA, indicating position filled in BDSA, private corporation affiliation, and position occupied therein"-complied with in transmittal letter dated July 21, 1955.

Letter of July 1, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "I would be deeply appreciative if you would furnish the Antitrust Subcommittee a copy of an unpublished report dealing with the activities of the Business and Defense Services Administration, which was referred to in a lengthy article in the Wall Street Journal of April 15, 1954"-complied with in transmittal letter dated July 20, 1955.

2. "The subcommittee also understands that similar reports or memoranda regarding the activities of the BDSA have also been prepared by the Department. Would you kindly forward copies of these as well?"-Transmitted herewith is an informal series of reports of BDSA entitled "Industry Division Activity in Service to Business, January 1-June 1, 1954." No additional material of this character has been found.

Letter of July 5, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "A copy of each intradepartmental report prepared by the Department of Commerce or its employees relating to industry advisory committees and based upon material derived from questionnaires distributed by the Department." The questionnaire referred to (copy of which is submitted herewith) was circulated to BDSA and answered by the submission of comprehensive minutes and membership of industry advisory committees and industry conferences. This mate rial with respect to industry advisory committees was furnished in response to the request of March 7, 1955, and with respect to industry conferences is furnished herewith under items 4 and 5 of the request of July 7, 1955.

Letter of July 5, 1955, from Representative Celler to Mr. Walter White, Vice Chairman, Business Advisory Council

1. "All the records and reports of the Council." Pursuant to discussion on July 27 between Representative Celler and Mr. Ray, this request is still under consideration.

Letter of July 7, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "A memorandum dated December 8, 1953, written by Stephen Dunn." Transmitted herewith are two memoranda, both dated December 8, 1953, and written by Stephen Dunn, formerly General Counsel, Department of Commerce. These opinions relate to (1) the use by the Business and Defense Services Administration of industry advisory groups and (2) to the employment by the Business and Defense Services Administration of persons without compensation (WOC's). 2. "All correspondence between Walter Williams and Robert H. Shields." This request is under review.

3. "All correspondence, letters, memoranda, etc., written by Leonard Pasek while occupying the following positions in the Department of Commerce from January 1, 1953, to date:

"(a) Assistant Director for Pulp, Paper, and Paperboard Division of NPA. "(b) Director and Acting Director, Pulp, Paper, and Paperboard Division, NPA.

"(c) Assistant Administrator of NPA.

"(d) Consultant, Office of the Administrator, BDSA." The correspondence, letters, memoranda, etc., written by Mr. Leonard Pasek are not transmitted. This sweeping request would be quite difficult to comply with and would involve intensive search of NPA-BDSA files which are normally maintained on a subject rather than an individual basis. If the subcommittee will specify the particular types of information it is seeking, the Department will be glad to attempt to locate such information to determine whether it can properly be made available.

4. "Membership lists, from October 1953, to date, of the following: "(a) All industry councils, including the Pulp and Paper Council, the Steel Council, and other councils.

"(b) All industry conferences.

"(c) All special conferences." Attached are membership lists of the Business Advisory Council and the Transportation Council. The membership list of the National Distribution Council is shown in item 5 below dealing with minutes of this Council. The list of persons attending meetings of the so-called Pulp and Paper Industry Council is shown in the minutes of the meetings furnished under item 5 below. The list of persons attending industry conferences (except the Tin Industry Conference of February 25, 1954, which is classified) and special conferences is shown in the minutes of the meetings furnished under item 5 below. There are no industry councils other than those referred to above.

5. "Minutes of all meetings of groups noted in (4) above." Minutes of the National Distribution Council, Pulp and Paper Council, and industry conferences (except the Tin Industry Conference of February 25, 1954, which is classified) and special conferences, from October 1953 to date, are transmitted herewith.

6. "Files and records of all organizations noted in (4) above." The files and records of the Distribution Council, Pulp and Paper Council, industry conferences, and special conferences consist of miscellaneous and frequently voluminous papers, such as correspondence, invitations, press releases, etc. This request is under review.

7. "List of all WOC's employed by the Department of Commerce from 1950 to date who were Washington representatives of their companies before occupying a Government position, or were Washington representatives for their companies after leaving their WOC positions." A list of all WOC personnel whose business address, according to our records, was in the Washington, D. C., area either at the time they entered upon duty or following the termination of their employment is in preparation and will be furnished shortly. It is doubtful that we will be able to say which, if any, of these were or became "Washington representatives" in the sense in which we understand you to use the term in your request. We would point out that in a number of instances the firm was itself a local firm or the individual apparently was or became a representative of the company in a territory which included the Washington area. would also point out that when the WOC leaves his employment with the Department of Commerce we, of course, have no control over his future assignment by his firm.

We

8. "Report or notes of report made by Dr. George Perkins, Director, Aluminum and Magnesium Division, BDSA, to the Aluminum Task Group meeting of October 21, 1954." There is no report or notes of report, other than in minutes of such meeting, copy of which is transmitted.

9. "All correspondence between the Aluminum and Magnesium Division, BDSA, or any of its personnel with Aluminum Association of America, or any committee, officer, or employee thereof." This request is under review.

10. "Report or notes of report made by Dr. George Perkins, Director, Aluminum and Magnesium Division, BDSA, to the Aluminum Task Group meeting of January 27, 1955." There is no report or notes of report, other than in minutes of such meeting, copy of which is transmitted.

Letter of July 11, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "Copies of all letters the Department of Commerce has received from the Department of Justice since January 1, 1953, concerning:

"(a) Employment of WOC's in the Department of Commerce or its agencies or divisions;

"(b) Utilization of industry advisory committees, industry councils, task groups, and other advisory groups by the Department of Commerce." This request is under review.

2. "All press releases from January 1953, issued by the Department on:

"(a) Industry advisory committees, industry councils, conferences, task groups, etc.;

"(b) WOC's." Transmitted herewith are all of the subject press releases that have been located.

3. "Opinions of the General Council of the Department of Commerce from January 1, 1953, to date regarding:

"(a) WOC's;

"(b) Advisory groups." Two opinions of the General Counsel of the Department of Commerce are transmitted as listed under item 1 of the letter request of July 7, 1955. A search is being made for additional opinions, if any.

4. "A document entitled, 'History of the Pulp and Paper Division, NPA.'" Transmitted herewith.

5. "Memorandum dated May 8, 1951, by G. Ticoulat, Pulp and Paper Division, NPA." This request is under review.

6. "Table, summary appraisal of certificates of necessity certified compared with February 1951 program and January 1952 program, Pulp and Paper Division, NPA." This request is under review.

7. "Memo: Newbrech to Malony, Critical examination of our expansion goal, January 28, 1952, and attachments thereto." This request is under review. 8. "Memo: Newbrech to Malony, January 11, 1952." This request is under review.

9. "Memo from McLaughlin to King, March 3, 1952, and attachments." This request is under review.

10. "Memo from Newbrech to Malony, February 13, 1952." This request is under review.

11. "Memo from Natwick to Rand, January 11, 1953." Not found.

12. "Memo from Pasek to Rand, March 3, 1953." This request is under review.

13. "Memo from Natwick to Stocking, December 9, 1952." This request is under review.

14. "Worksheet applications for pulp, paper and board granted to Pulp and Paper Division, NPA." This request is under review.

Letter of July 12, 1955, from Representative Celler to Secretary Weeks

1. "A list of all without compensation personnel in your Department or its agencies. For each such WOC indicate the position occupied in the Government, the company affiliation, and company position." In preparation.

2. "A list of all consultants employed by your Department or agency. For each such consultant include the information requested in No. 1 above." In preparation.

3. "Statutory authority for utilizing the service of WOC's in your Department or agency." Sections 710 (b) and 710 (c) of the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended, implemented by Executive Orders 10182 and 10205, authorize the Secretary of Commerce to employ persons without compensation to carry out the provisions of that act.

In addition, the Department of Commerce is authorized generally to employ persons on a gratuitous basis, in accordance with rulings of the Comptroller General (27 Comp. Gen. 194). This decision allowed such hirings when there is some applicable provision of law authorizing the acceptance of services without compensation. Reliance was based in the case decided on section 15 of Public Law 600 (60 Stat. 810, 5 U. S. C. 55 (a)) which is also applicable to the Department of Commerce (sec. 102, Public Law 121, 84th Cong.; 69 Stat. 226, 234). Your attention is invited to the attached copy of an unpublished Comptroller's Decision No. B-13378, November 20, 1940, addressed to the Secretary of Commerce with respect to employment of persons without compensation.

4. "A copy of all rules and regulations promulgated by your agency relating to the employment of WOC's and consultants." Transmitted herewith is copy of Department of Commerce Order No. 202-10 (amended) of December 27, 1950. NPA general administrative instruction 204-6 (revised) of May 1, 1951, was furnished to subcommittee at hearing on July 26, 1955 (this instruction has been adopted by BDSA). Also attached are Department of Commerce order 202-26 (amended) of September 11, 1950, and NPA general administrative instruction 204-26 of May 1, 1951 (this instruction has been adopted by BDSA).

5. "A list of all industry advisory committees, councils, conferences, task forces, and/or other advisory groups utilized by your agency, including membership rosters of each advisory group." We believe that this request substantially duplicates previous requests which we have complied with. Our records indicate that the subcommittee has withdrawn this request.

6. "All rules and regulations promulgated by your agency relating to the organization and operation of advisory groups." Transmitted herewith are copies of Department of Commerce order No. 114 of May 5, 1950, and of BDSA operating instructions Nos. 7 and 8 of May 10, 1954, and June 9, 1954, respectively. 7. "Statutory basis for organizing and employing advisory committees or other advisory groups." Section 701 (b) (ii) of the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended, provides that "such business advisory committee shall be appointed as shall be appropriate for purposes of consultation in the formulation of rules,