Mr. AVILA. For some years; for about 10 years. The CHAIRMAN. About 10 years? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What did you do then? Mr. AVILA. I went to work with the Mexican Crude Rubber Co., in the interior of Mexico. The CHAIRMAN. With the Mexican Crude Rubber Co. in the interior of Mexico? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir; from Detroit. The CHAIRMAN. I forgot to ask you. Where did you go to school? Mr. AVILA. In Texas. The CHAIRMAN. San Antonio? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. So you had your education in America, did you? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Now, how long did you work for this Mexican Crude Rubber Co. in the interior of Mexico? Mr. AVILA. About seven or eight years. The CHAIRMAN. Seven or eight years? The CHAIRMAN. What did you do next? Mr. AVILA. Well, the Mexican revolution occurred, and I went to live on the border. The CHAIRMAN. What year was the Mexican revolution that caused you to go and live on the border? Mr. AVILA. 1914. The CHAIRMAN. 1914? Mr. AVILA. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. What did you do next after you came there? Mr. AVILA. I was selling and buying goods, you know, on commission, until the war came; and then I joined the military intelligence service. The CHAIRMAN. In what year did you go into the military intelligence service. Mr. AVILA. 1917. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you stationed while you were in the Army? Mr. AVILA. At Laredo. The CHAIRMAN. You weren't enlisted? Mr. AVILA. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Nor commissioned? Mr. AVILA. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. But a civilian assistant to the military intelligence? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Were you at Laredo throughout the war? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And, after the war, what did you do? Mr. AVILA. I went down to Mexico. The CHAIRMAN. To Mexico City? Mr. AVILA. Mexico City; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What did you do there? Mr. AVILA. I opened there an office for investigation. Mr. AVILA. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. A commercial credit agency; was that it? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How long were you in that business? Mr. AVILA. For two or three years. The CHAIRMAN. What did you do then? Mr. AVILA. I came to work for Mr. Hearst. The CHAIRMAN. In what year did you begin to work for Mr. Hearst ? Mr. AVILA. This year. The CHAIRMAN. This year? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Well, if you were only three years in the credit agency work Mr. AVILA (interposing). Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. After the war, you have not accounted for about five years of the eight years that have elapsed since the war. Mr. AVILA. I was in Laredo. The CHAIRMAN. You were in the railroad work? Mr. AVILA. No, sir; in Laredo, as commission merchant; and then I went to Mexico. The CHAIRMAN. When did you go to Mexico? Mr. AVILA. In 1922. The CHAIRMAN. In 1922? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir; in the winter of 1922. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any employment at the present time under the United States Government? Mr. AVILA. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Have you had since the conclusion of the war? Mr. AVILA. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have not at any time in the last three or four years worked for the United States Government? The CHAIRMAN. Now, did you have anything to do with the obtaining of any of these documents from Mexico City? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Will you tell the committee exactly what happened? The CHAIRMAN. Keep your voice up so that we can all hear you. Mr. AVILA. I am going to talk slow. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. AVILA. The latter part of May of this year I was in Mexico, at the Reyes Hotel, when Mr. John Page came to me and asked me for a walk; and when we were walking, he says to me to make an investigation in the judicial department, that there was a certain woman working there. He gave me the name of the woman. The CHAIRMAN. Are you able to tell us the name of the woman? She is still in Mexico? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Could you give it to the committee, privately? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Will you write it on that sheet? [Indicating.] (Whereupon, the witness wrote on a slip of paper and handed the slip of paper to the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Now, you have told us that Mr. Page took you for a walk, and in the course of that walk that you took he suggested that you make an investigation with a certain woman clerk. Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Whose name you have given the committee? The CHAIRMAN. Did he tell you in what office that woman clerk was employed? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Will you tell us? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. She was employed in the controller's office, a branch of the finance department. The CHAIRMAN. Employed in the controller's office, a branch of the financial department? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. AVILA. Then he said to me, "That other woman has offered that she can make arrangements with him. She is leaving there and some documents pertaining to some money and some señor." The CHAIRMAN. He told you that this Mexican woman clerk had offered some American girl living there? Mr. AVILA. No, American man. The CHAIRMAN. Some American man? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Living there; some documents pertaining to the payment of money to American officials? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir; without mentioning names. The CHAIRMAN. American Senators? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What else did Mr. Page tell you? Mr. AVILA. He says to go there and find out if this woman was working there and if she has seen those papers in the files of the department where she was working. The CHAIRMAN. He told you to go to see this woman? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Whose name you have given us? The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Now, that was last May. Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. I went to the department and located that woman. She was working there, but she was what they call supernumerary sometimes, would help in the work. She has no steady work there in that department, so that she has no access to those papers. She has no access to those papers. So I was well acquainted with all the boys that were working in that department. Of course, in my work, you know, I have to collect some money there from the Mexican Government, and any payment has to pass through that department. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Mr. AVILA. So then, I knew every boy there. Mr. AVILA. I knew the clerks there; yes, sir. I met one of the men who was in charge of the archives, and I asked him, and he told me there were some papers pertaining to money paid to some American officials, without mentioning names or anything. The CHAIRMAN. He told you that? Mr. AVILA. Yes. He said he was going to see him and ask him to come back the next day. I went and informed Mr. Page of my investigation about the woman and about his men, and that they were interested. So the next day, I came to see the clerk and the clerk told me that he had located them. The CHAIRMAN. The next day you came and saw this man and he you that he had located them? told Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Now, this was a man employed in what office? The CHAIRMAN. In the controller's office? The CHAIRMAN. Is he now in Mexico? Mr. AVILA. I don't think so. I think he is in the States. The CHAIRMAN. You think he is in the United States? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Could you tell us his name? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Will it expose him to Mr. AVILA (interposing). I will give you the name secretly, to the committee. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. (Thereupon the witness wrote on a slip of paper and handed it to the chairman of the committee.) The CHAIRMAN. Now, when he told you this clerk in the controller's office had located these papers Mr. AVILA (interposing). Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What happened next? Mr. AVILA. I asked him if he could see the papers. He says, "I will give you the photographs." I said, "No; I want the papers. The CHAIRMAN. He offered to give you photographs, saying it was very dangerous to give you the originals? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. Then he asked me for some money; and so I go The CHAIRMAN (interposing). How much money did he ask you for? Mr. AVILA. He asked me first for 300 pesos. I got the money from Mr. Page and went back to him the next day and gave him the money. The CHAIRMAN. How much did you give him? Mr. AVILA. One hundred and fifty pesos. The CHAIRMAN. You gave him 150 pesos? Mr. AVILA. $150. The CHAIRMAN. That is about 300 pesos? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That was money you got from Mr. Page, was it? Mr. AVILA. From Mr. Page. The CHAIRMAN. Then what happened? Mr. AVILA. Then he loaned me the document, to be seen by Mr. Page. He says to me, " They want to keep the original. It will give you more money," without mentioning to me the amount he wants. So I showed the paper right away to Mr. Page and submitted it to him. Mr. Page took the papers to some other party that was with him and to Ambassador Sheffield. The CHAIRMAN. Was this all on the same day? Mr. AVILA. On the same day. The CHAIRMAN. The same day that the papers came to you? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. I went ahead. The CHAIRMAN. The same day that the papers came to you, and on the same day that you paid the 300 pesos Mr. AVILA (interposing). Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You gave the papers to Mr. Page? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And he showed them to a man who was with him? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Was that the same man that communicated with Mr. Clark in New York? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir; the same man. The CHAIRMAN. We already have his name. Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And you say on that same day he showed them to Ambassador Sheffield? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Then what happened? Mr. AVILA. Mr. Page gave me about six or seven documents. He asked me to see the clerk again and tell him that they can not get back the originals. He asked his price. The man that was The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Let me see if I understand you. So Mr. Page told you to tell this clerk in the controller general's office that he would not give back the originals, but he wanted to know what the clerk's price was? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. To have the originals retained by Mr. Page? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir; and also to see if there were some more additional papers. The CHAIRMAN. And also to see if there were some more additional papers? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. I went to the man, and he asked me $3,000 for the papers. The CHAIRMAN. How much? Mr. AVILA. $3,000. The CHAIRMAN. $3.000? Mr. AVILA. So I came back to Mr. Page and got the money from the other man that was there and paid the clerk. The CHAIRMAN. You got the money from this other man? Mr. AVILA. From Mr. Page. The CHAIRMAN. Oh, you got the money from Mr. Page? The CHAIRMAN. $3,000? Mr. AVILA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And paid it to the clerk? |