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being extracted. Saturday was selected as the day because on Saturday is a half-holiday and Mr. Elias was away, and his clerk, I believe, was working overtime. The following Saturday the remainder of those documents were abstracted in the same way.

Those documents, and I do not know that you have looked at them, you asked me what we did to ascertain the authenticity of those documents, those documents obtained in New York City from the files of Mr. Elias, show or rather dovetail in exactly with the documents secured in Mexico City. And there are telegrams, code telegrams, which are also deciphered, which appear in those documents, being impossible naturally for me to get them from the telegraph office those code telegrams were sent in the diplomatic pouch as evidenced by the marks on those documents from Mexico in confirmation of telegrams that came in code over the cables. Now, there are at least 10 documents, and I may be mistaken about that, that have to do solely with this conspiracy on the part of the Mexican Government to attempt to influence public opinion in this country, and to influence personages of high standing in this community, I mean in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you make any inquiry, or did you get any evidence tending to show the acceptance or receipt of any money by any Senator, from this bunch of papers?

Mr. COBLENTZ. None whatsoever.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any reason to believe that any Senator did accept money?

Mr. COBLENTZ. It was my conviction from the start that none of these alleged beneficiaries in the United States Senate received one nickel or even knew that money was appropriated for them. The CHAIRMAN. Do you still believe that?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I still believe that. I believe that this was just a method, a conspiracy on the part of certain Mexican officials, to loot their own treasury and enrich themselves.

The CHAIRMAN. Some of these telegrams are in code.

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any means of deciphering that code?

Mr. COBLENTZ. No; these documents were in the beginning offered to Secretary Kellogg, or rather-yes, to Secretary Kellogg, and he did not want to look at them.

Senator ROBINSON. Who offered them?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Mr. Page. They were also shown to Ambassador Sheffield by Mr. Page, and to Mr. Schoenfeldt by Mr. Page.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Schoenfeldt is the counsellor of our embassy at Mexico?

Mr. COBLENTZ. So I believe.

The CHAIRMAN. What has that to do with the decoding of these code messages?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Well, we could get no help from the State Department in our attempts to get more light on these documents. For instance, we sent out to Judge Perry in Omaha, to get his story regarding the operations of the Mixed Claims Commission, and that was published. We sent to Mr. Anderson, Henry W., I believe are his initials, who was the agent of the United States in that Mixed

Claims Commission, but he refused to talk without the consent of the State Department, which was not forthcoming.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us get back to these code telegrams.

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN, How did you manage to get them decoded? Mr. COBLENTZ. We did not need to decode them. They are already decoded. The code telegram and decoded telegram came attached together.

The CHAIRMAN. In certain of Mr. Page's published articles it is stated that telegrams were sent in code, and then a translation of the decoded telegram follows.

Mr. COBLENTZ. If you will look at those documents you have there you will find the code and the decoded telegrams.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that, but did you have any method of decoding them except from the copies which you found attached? Mr. COBLENTZ. Only the copies that were attached.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, you were unable to translate the code in which they were written?

Mr. COBLENTZ. We were unable to translate the code, it is true, but they are attached together, and they have the same numerals, and one goes with the other, the code telegram and the deciphered telegram.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the committee understands that, but we wanted to know whether you were also able to read the code message. Mr. COBLENTZ. No.

The CHAIRMAN. When these papers were abstracted from the Mexican consulate general in New York, was money paid to the clerk who abstracted them?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I believe so.
The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Mr. COBLENTZ. A total of $3,500.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you make the payment?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I gave the money to Mr. Avila.

The CHAIRMAN. And you believe that he made the payment?
Mr. COBLENTZ. I am quite sure that he made the payment.

The CHAIRMAN. Why are you sure?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Because of the man's dealings in the matter, which have been thoroughly honest, and he has refused more money than we could possibly pay him.

The CHAIRMAN. From whom was an offer made to him of more money than you could possibly pay him?

Mr. COBLENTZ. According to Mr. Avila, after this story started he was approached by one of the officials in Mr. Elias's office and offered $10,000 if he would testify that these were forged documents. The CHAIRMAN. When was that offer made?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Mr. Avila will testify as to that.

The CHAIRMAN. When did you first hear of that offer?
Mr. COBLENTZ. The day after it was made.

The CHAIRMAN. When?

Mr. COBLENTZ. About the 15th or 16th of November.

The CHAIRMAN. Of November?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Of 1927?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is all I wish to ask.

Mr. COBLENTZ. Pardon me, but here are some more documents. [Handing to the chairman of the committee another envelope in addition to the one furnished by Mr. Hearst during the morning.] We have not gone into the documents themselves, but they throw light on the general tenor of all those documents.

Senator ROBINSON. Where were they obtained?

Mr. COBLENTZ. These were obtained from Mexico City, according to my information. As I say, we are not in a position to testify as to the absolute authenticity of these, because we do not know directly how they were obtained.

Senator ROBINSON. How long have you known Mr. Avila?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Only since he came on to New York.

Senator ROBINSON. He is here and will testify?

Mr. COBLENTZ. He is.

Senator ROBINSON. What employment had he, or what business was he engaged in when he undertook to procure the documents introduced in evidence?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I think Mr. Page can testify as to that fact.
Senator ROBINSON. You do not know yourself?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Only in a general way.

Senator ROBINSON. What did you understand he was doing?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I understood he was employed in Mexico City in some title and guaranty bureau or something of that sort, and that he had done work for the United States Embassy in Mexico City. Senator ROBINSON. Did you ascertain how long since he had passed out of the service of the embassy in Mexico, how long it was?

Mr. COBLENTZ. He had not been officially connected with the embassy in Mexico City, but rather unofficially.

Senator ROBINSON. Unofficially?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes, sir.

Senator ROBINSON. He had performed, I take it, secret-service duty? Mr. COBLENTZ. I take it so; yes.

Senator ROBINSON. You stated that from the beginning you believed that no Senator mentioned in these documents had received any consideration or knew that such consideration was supposed to have been paid them?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes.

Senator ROBINSON. Did you make an investigation of that subject matter upon which to base a conclusion?

Mr. COBLENTZ. My theory, Senator Robinson, of this entire situation was that a conspiracy existed in Mexico City, that this was a conspiracy participated in by the President of the Republic of Mexico and other officials, to spread communistic propaganda in the United States of America, to thwart the efforts of our Government in its policies in Nicaragua, to influence personages where they could, and above all to lay by a nest egg for a rainy day.

Senator ROBINSON. What were the circumstances upon which you based that theory or conclusion?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Well, I could not imagine United States Senators. taking men of the standard of Mr. Borah, Mr. La Follette, and Mr. Norris, and so on, of accepting a nickel from those people for whatever they had done. My theory was that those gentlemen by their

public acts, honest public acts, had established a background which permitted these corruptionists to sell them out.

Senator ROBINSON. Your conclusion then was based upon your general knowledge of the character and reputation of the Senators and upon the investigation that you made of the authenticity of the documents.

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes. If you will study these documents, particularly these documents obtained in New York City, and, mind you, we had no knowledge whatsoever that there were any documents there, if you will study these documents and see how they dovetail in, you will see how this conspiracy to send $1,200,000 to this country was developed through telegrams, letters, and replies, all dovetailing together, into a comprehensive story of the conspiracy.

Senator ROBINSON. If I understand you, at the time you caused the search to be made of the files in Mr. Elias's office you had no knowledge as to what those files would contain?

Mr. COBLENTZ. No.

Senator ROBINSON. You were merely trying to see if there was anything in the files that would confirm the documents that had already been procured from the office in Mexico?

Mr. COBLENTZ. That is true, Senator.

Senator ROBINSON. Did you suggest a plan by which they could obtain them or leave that to Mr. Avila?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I left that to Mr. Avila. Another point, the man who delivered these documents had no idea where they were going. Senator ROBINSON. The man who delivered which telegrams? Mr. COBLENTZ. The telegrams obtained in New York City. Senator ROBINSON. How do you know that?

Mr. COBLENTZ. From Mr. Avila.

Senator ROBINSON. Mr. Avila told you?

Mr. COBLENTZ. He told me that.

Senator ROBINSON. Did he tell you what explanation he gave to the clerk in the office there for wanting the documents?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes.

Senator ROBINSON. And what was that?

Mr. COBLENTZ. That the documents were wanted by Bishop Diaz of the Catholic Church.

Senator ROBINSON. Do you know why he told him that?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Because the man was an ardent Catholic.

Senator ROBINSON. He thought that would induce him to give them up?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Evidently so.

Senator ROBINSON. Did the clerk himself receive the compensation for delivering up the documents?

Mr. COBLENTZ. I have already testified that we paid $3,500.
Senator ROBINSON. You paid that to Mr. Avila?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes; but Mr. Avila was paid that to deliver it to Mr. What's-the-name.

Senator ROBINSON. What did Mr. Avila get?

Mr. COBLENTZ. A salary of $50 a week and expenses.

Senator ROBINSON. He was employed by the Hearst newspapers

on a salary?

Mr. COBLENTZ. He was sent to me as an employee.

Senator ROBINSON. And he only received $50 a week?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes, sir.

Senator ROBINSON. And now you say when they were presented to the State Department your theory was that these documents showed evidence of a conspiracy on the part of the Mexican Government to influence public sentiment in this country and the conduct of public men, and the State Department refused to examine them?

Mr. COBLENTZ. According to what Mr. Page told me, Mr. Kellogg said to him: I do not want to see them.

Senator ROBINSON. Did he say why he did not want to see them? Mr. COBLENTZ. I do not recall that.

Senator ROBINSON. Has any explanation been given to you why the State Department did not want to see them, by officers in the State Department?

Mr. COBLENTZ. No, sir.

Senator ROBINSON. You never discussed the matter, I take it, yourself with them?

Mr. COBLENTZ. No, sir.

Senator ROBINSON. Who was it presented by to the officers of the State Department?

Mr. COBLENTZ. By Mr. John Page.

Senator ROBINSON. The documents that you obtained from the New York office, in the manner you have detailed, did some of them purport to be replies to messages received from the office in Mexico City? Mr. COBLENTZ. Obviously, and they check, the dates.

Senator ROBINSON. I think that is all I wish to ask.

The CHAIRMAN. I have one more question. You handed the committee some papers marked "Eight documents and translations-new material," but I did not ask you when they were obtained in Mexico. Mr. COBLENTZ. I can not answer that.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you had them?

Mr. COBLENTZ. About three days; three or four days.

The CHAIRMAN. Where did you get it?

Mr. COBLENTZ. In San Antonio.

The CHAIRMAN. From whom did you get them in San Antonio? Mr. COBLENTZ. Mr. Avila brought them up.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Avila brought them from San Antonio?

Mr. COBLENTZ. Yes, sir.

Senator ROBINSON. I do want to ask one other question that I did not ask: I believe you said you edited the material that Mr. Page wrote.

Mr. COBLENTZ. Correct.

Senator ROBINSON. Do you know whether any changes were made in any of the documents after they came into the possession of the Hearst newspapers?

Mr. COBLENTZ. The originals are there untouched; I know what you allude to.

Senator ROBINSON. All right. Tell us about that.

Mr. COBLENTZ. I will explain that to you. These documents were photographed and facsimiles made. If you study these documents you will find that some stamps are rather dim, and some in green ink and some in purple ink, and naturally they did not come out strong. They were turned over to the photographer, or rather to the art department, to strengthen. This is a facsimile and not the original, the original has never been touched, but this is a fac

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