in the discussions, who had not delivered his | noble lords for their coadjutors. If noble opinion, on the presentation of petitions; lords were thus to be held up to their and many of them had expressed not a countrymen as undeserving of respect and hesitating opinion, but a fixed condemna- confidence, he would say, that, on the tion of the policy of passing this measure. principle of justice, they had a right to ask They had hitherto discussed its principle. for the earliest hearing, to vindicate themThey were now in a condition to argue it selves from what he would venture to call at length, and with reference to its dif- a Protestant sentence of excommunication, ferent details; and though he did not ex- and to show that they were not influenced pect that the opinions of those who differed by such motives as were attributed to them, from him in that House would be changed but by nobler, and more exalted principles, by the approaching discussion, he believed and that they would not be struck off the that that disscussion would have consider- roll of Christianity, because they could able influence on the minds of those per- not bear to witness the miseries of millions sons out of doors whose sentiments were of their fellow-countrymen with an unnow attempted to be forced upon their moved countenance and an unrelenting lordships as the guides and regulators of heart. their individual conduct. When his noble friend founded his argument for delay apon the number of petitions which had been presented to the House, he felt a little surprise; for he (lord Goderich) built his own argument upon those petitions, though it certainly cut the other way. He had every respect for the petitions of the people, and he wished to throw the doors wide open to the right of petitioning: but he must be permitted to declare, that in instigating the people to sign those petitions which had recently been placed on their lordships' table, recourse had been had to schemes and stratagems, which were discreditable to the country, and against which he must protest, with a vehemence proportioned to the value which he set on petitions originating in proper motives. He must say, that the arts resorted to, within the last few weeks, to procure petitions, were scandalously unjust. To what did he refer? Not to the misrepresentations of history, with which they were crammed-not to the gross blunders as to faets, with which every line teemed; but to the gross perversions of the objects of this measure, and to the calumnies invented as to the motives of those who supported it, and to that system which had recently been adopted. He alluded to the attempt to represent all persons who were friendly to concession, as persons condemned to infamy here, and to perdition hereafter, as infidels and atheists,-to pry into the hearts of men like the worst of Popish inquisitors, and to hold them up as anxious to destroy not only the constitution, but the religion of their country. Such vile artifices had been resorted to with such active ingenuity as ought to induce shame on the countenances of

The Earl of Eldon said, that the noble duke, in naming Thursday for the second reading, had mentioned one reason, which, if stated separately and distinct from others, would have great weight with him. The noble duke said, that he was anxious to have an opportunity of stating fully to the House his reasons for the introduction of this measure. This anxiety was very natural, and was highly creditable to his character and honour; and if these were the only grounds assigned, he should not feel disposed to object to the proposed course; but there were other reasons urged, which, he owned, had no such weight with him. It was urged, that the principle of this measure was the same as that which had been in discussion before their lordships for nearly the last thirty years. Now, he could not know what the exact nature of the bill before their lordships was, until it was read, and the House was aware, that he might, in the exercise of his privilege, call upon the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, either to read himself, or to direct one of the clerks at the table to read, the whole of the bill at length, by which their lordships might be put in possession of its contents some sixteen hours sooner than they otherwise could. The bill, he understood, was printed in the other House on the 24th of March, but even since then some important amendments had been made. being the case, it could not be justly asserted, that the character of this measure was the same as those on the same subject which had occasionally been brought before their lordships for the last thirty years. Let their lordships consider the important interests which might be affected by this measure. He was sure that the public

This

Lord Ellenborough said, he should recollect the noble lord's prophecy next year, when most probably the noble lord himself would have seen that it was in no respect likely to be verified. He concurred with noble lords, that the shortness of the time between the first and second reading of the bill was unprecedented; Lord Farnham observed, that the bill but he would contend, that under the cirthen before the House differed very ma- cumstances of the case a longer time was terially from any former measure on the not necessary. A noble lord had told the same subject. It went further in its princi- House, that between three and four thouple than any preceding bill, and on that sand petitions in all had been presented ground further time ought to be allowed for to their lordships on the subject of this the consideration of it before the second read-measure, and that a large majority of those ing. Those who purposed to deviate from the usual course were bound to assign some satisfactory reasons for it. For his

had had time, since the introduction of sure on which he had already so delithis measure to parliament to deliberate and he supposed it would not be said that the petitions were not the result of deliberation--to form their opinions upon it, and to communicate those opinions to their lordships, it was not too much to say, that their lordships had had at least an equally good opportunity to consider the subject and to form their opinions upon it within the same time. It had been said, that the proposed delay was necessary for the character of the House with posterity. It was very natural to wish to stand well in the opinions of those who were to come after us; but he was sure that posterity would have so many proofs of the benefits which this measure would confer on the country, that it would readily excuse the haste of reading it a second time on the second day after it was presented to the House. The most strenuous opponent of the measure-his noble and learned friend (Eldon)-objected to the haste of reading it so soon, on the ground that such haste would not be consistent with the honour and dignity of the House; but it appeared to him, that the honour and dignity of their lordships would be more consulted in passing the measure with deliberate discussion, than The Earl of Carnarvon expressed the by occupying themselves with objections gratification he felt at the good temper which were not well founded. It was said, with which the discussion had been conthat the question had not yet been discussed ducted. He had listened with much aton its merits. As far as discussion con- tention to all the objections that had been sisted in the application of reason to the urged against the second reading, and he point in debate, he had not yet heard any must own they were not of a nature to thing that could be called discussion from convince him that it ought to be delayed the noble and learned lord, or from those beyond the time which the noble duke who concurred with him in his view of had mentioned. The noble and learned the question. He had yet heard nothing lord and other noble lords, had objected, but assertions, roundly and strongly made, that the effect of this measure would be and by none more than by the noble to change the religion and government of and learned lord-as well against the the country from Protestantism to Popery; general principle of the bill as against and the noble duke at the head of the some parts of it in detail. Now, consider-government was naturally anxious to take ing the weight and dignity which justly attached to the opinion of the noble and learned lord, and the very great deliberation which he always used before he pronounced that opinion on any important point, he should infer that any person of such great sagacity as the noble and learned lord would not have applied the term "atrocious" to any measure, as a whole, until he had gravely and maturely considered it in all its parts. As far, then, as the noble and learned lord was concerned, the second reading of a mea- I

berately and strongly pronounced his opinion, could not be considered premature, even though it should be on the second day after it was brought into their lordships' House. There were strong reasons why the discussion should take place on the earliest day, which their lordships should not forget. He meant the state of the session, and the state of public business.

Since the commencement of the session, this one topic had engrossed almost the whole attention, in and out of parliament. That the country was agitated on the subject, he did not believe; but that the public mind was distracted with respect to it, to the suspension of all other public business, he was ready to admit; and feeling that, he thought that their lordships could not confer a greater benefit on the country than by putting an end to this distraction. That would be most effectually done by passing the bill now before their lordships, which did away with the monopoly which one portion of the community enjoyed to the exclusion of the other. By this course the interests of the country generally would be best consulted, and the tranquillity of Ireland in particular secured.

the earliest opportunity of relieving himself from the imputation implied in the objection. That he would do so ably and effectually, he had no doubt; and he was sure it ought to be the desire of every one of their lordships to afford him the earliest opportunity of meeting the charges which had been thus indirectly made against him. A noble lord on the cross-bench had quoted precedents to show the course adopted, when similar measures were introduced; but he had omitted to take any notice of what the House had done, when

went somewhat farther, partook of the
principle of the bill of 1817, and certainly
was very little different from the principle
of the measures on the subject which had
been objects of discussion in parliament
for the last twenty years. The only dif
ference was in the detail; but the principle,
he contended, was the same.
How was
it possible, then, for noble lords to say,
that they were taken by surprise by this
bill, or that they had not sufficient time
to consider its principle? Under these
circumstances, he did hope that the noble
duke would persevere in the second read-
ing of this most important measure on
Thursday. In the way of further inform-
ation respecting it, nothing could be
gained by delay, and much might be
achieved by setting it speedily at rest.

it not only received, but passed a measure in pari materia sent up from the other House. He alluded to an act passed when the noble and learned lord was himself a member of the administration. By that act, the power of the sword by sea and land, if not given to Roman Catholies, at least it was declared that from thenceforth they were eligible to any naval or military command in the British empire or her colonies, with the exception of the officers of commander-in-chief or lord high admiral. No objection was, at the time, made to this great acquisition of military power by Roman Catholics, on the part of those who now so strenuously opposed their participation of civil privileges; but, what was the course pursued when that measure was brought up to their lordships' House? It was brought Viscount Sidmouth observed, that noin on Friday, the 27th of June, 1817, and thing he had heard could diminish the read a first time. It was read a second regret he felt, that the second reading of time on the next parliamentary day,-the the bill should have been fixed for ThursMonday following,-was committed on day a bill than which, viewed with the Tuesday and passed on the Wednes-reference to its consequences, none more day. Yet that was a bill which, accord-important had ever been introduced since ing to the principles of the noble lords who opposed the present measures, tended, by the power it gave to Catholics, to undermine the constitution and Protestant establishments of the country. How had that bill been opened to the House? Had there been a brilliant speech setting forth its justice and expediency? Had it been mentioned in the Speech from the throne? Was it the subject of warm debate in either House, or was time given to the people to petition, and thus to ascertain the sense of the country upon such an inroad upon the constitution? Nothing of all this had happened. The bill was introduced without notice, and carried through all its stages sub silentio. So far from the public knowing any thing about it, he believed that many members of both Houses were ignorant of its existence until it had passed into a law. He could not speak from his own personal knowledge of what passed on that occasion, for he was not in the country at the time, but he was sure he had not heard or read of a single objection having been made against the measure; yet all that time the noble and learned earl was a member of the administration. There was not then a word of having been taken by surprise, by those who now so loudly complained of time not being allowed for the consideration of a measure which, though it

the period of the Revolution. Yet it was spoken of, by some noble lords, as a measure of small importance-as only the repeal of two acts, the 25th and 30th of Charles the 2nd-and because those acts were passed with a rapidity, rendered necessary by the very circumstances out of which they arose, that rapidity was now urged as a ground why their lordships should be equally rapid in passing the bills now before them. He deeply deplored this rapidity for the honour and dignity of the House, and for the character of government, by which the speech of the commissioners at the opening of the session had been advised. That speech, their lordships would recollect, had recommended, that the whole state of Ireland should be taken into consideration. It was said, that ample time had been afforded for discussing this measure. Would it be contended, that their lordships had followed the advice of the Speech from the Throne? They had given a solemn pledge, that they would act upon that advice, in the Address moved in answer to the Speech. Had that pledge been redeemed? Had their lordships taken the whole state of Ireland into their deliberate consideration? It was his impression, as well as that of other lords, that the pledge so given would have been redeemed by the consideration of the state

of Ireland, either in a select committee or | proper means had been used to obtain a committee of the whole House,-that, petitions on the other side. It was stated, in either case, some inquiry would be that the Catholics were excluded from gone into. As that had not been done, civil power solely on account of their he implored their lordships to consult their religious tenets. This was not the fact; own character and dignity, and the great their exclusion rested on political grounds, importance of the subject, by not entering and not on their religious opinions. upon its discussion prematurely. Let the whole of the subject be brought fully under the consideration of parliament. While he said this, he gave the noble duke full credit for his very natural desire to take the earliest opportunity of explaining the grounds on which he introduced the measure; but he could not admit, that that alone was a sufficient reason for not allowing longer time for the consideration of the subject before its second reading.

The Earl of Malmesbury said, that after all he had heard, his opinion of the impropriety of pressing the second reading of the bill remained unchanged; but if the majority of the House, as appeared to be the case, were not disposed to take the same view of it, he would not divide the House.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, March 31.

The Earl of Winchilsea said, that as the noble lord had stated his intention not to divide the House, he rose for the purpose of entering his protest against the The Earl of Longford said, he could measure, and of expressing his opinion, not admit that there was any analogy that their lordships would have better between the circumstances connected with consulted the dignity of their proceedings, the passing of the acts of the 25th and if the proposal of the noble lord had been 30th of Charles the 2nd, and the bills acceded to. Their lordships were now before the House. Would it be contend-acting with precipitancy, with regard to ed, that we were acting under intimida- a measure which the people justly felt to tion at the present moment? He must be a question deeply affecting their civil also object to the analogy attempted to be and religious liberty. He could not have established between suspensions of the contented himself to have been within the Habeas Corpus and this bill. Was the walls of the House, and supposed to have suspension of the Habeas Corpus a per- given his assent to the precipitate promanent and irrevocable measure? In ceeding which had been resolved on. the one case, a temporary and pressing The original motion was then agreed to. necessity would justify such rapidity; but the present bill was intended to be permanent. It was of a nature, as he and others viewed it, extremely dangerous to the constitution; and on that ground it FORGED SIGNATURE TO A PETITION.] was important that it should not be urged Mr. Dawson read a Letter which he had hastily through the House; at the same received from the rev. Mr. Waddy, of time that he gave credit to ministers for Kilrea, who stated, that having seen in their intentions in the course they pro- the newspapers a report, setting forth the posed. A noble earl had alluded to the presentation, by sir George Hill, of a act of 1817, which rendered Catholics Petition from that Parish against the eligible to offices in the army and navy; Catholic Claims, to which his name was but that was not a new principle. It was said to be subscribed, he felt it his duty only an extension of what had been alto notify, that the signature of his name ready granted, and what he believed Catholics had already enjoyed in the sister kingdom. One word on the subject of petitions. A noble viscount had alluded to the feelings in which he supposed some of the petitions had originated, and had stated, that improper means had been used, in order to get up petitions against the measure. He would not admit the fact as far as his knowledge extended; but if he were disposed to recriminate, he could show that very im

must be a forgery, as he never signed, or authorised the signing of his name to such a petition. It was singular enough, too, that this very petition dwelt with particular force upon the gross artifices which were imputed to the Catholics to create perjury and immorality. He meant not to proceed further than to expose the grossness of this forgery.

The Speaker. I hope that the House, when circumstances so strongly affecting a most valuable right of the subject,