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by comparing his own opinions with those of others on the subject, he had, during the period he had been in office, had an opportunity of forming a judgment which other persons had not possessed, and he might claim some confidence from the circumstance, that he would not have given the opinion which he had giveu, if he had not been intimately and firmly persuaded that that opinion was a just one.

The point which he would first bring under their lordships consideration was the state of Ireland. He knew it was by some considered that the state of Ireland had nothing to do with the question,-that it was a subject which ought to be left entirely out of its consideration. Those persons said that Ireland had been disturbed for the last thirty years-that to such disturbance we had been accustomed, and that therefore it did not all alter the circumstances of the case as they had hitherto appeared. It was perfectly true that Ireland had been disturbed during the long period which he had mentioned, but there had been circumstances of considerable aggravation in the course of the last year or two, which had just passed.

Political circumstances had in a considerable degree occasioned that aggravation; but, besides, he must say (though he had no positive legal proof of the fact, yet he had every reason to believe it) that there had been an organization of the people,-a consideable organization of the people,-for purposes of mischief. This organization he might take to be proved, not only by the declarations of those who formed it, but likewise by the effects which it had produced on the elections of churchwardens throughout the country-in the circumstances which attended the election for the county of Clare last year-in the circumstances which followed that election-in the proceedings of a gentleman who went at the head of a body of men into the north of Ireland-in the simultaneous proceedings of various bodies of men at Thurles, Clonmell, Templetown, and other places-in the proceedings of another gentleman in the King's county-and in the recall of the former gentleman from the north of Ireland by the Catholic Association. In all those circumstances it was

obvious to him that there was an organization of the people, and that they were directed by some superior authority. This organization had certainly produced a state of society in Ireland which had not been heretofore witnessed, and which was an aggravation of all the evils that had before afflicted that unfortunate country. Later in the year a considerable town was attacked in the middle of the night by a body of armed people from a neighbouring mountainous district. This town (Augher) was attacked with arms, and the persons who attacked it were driven out with arms by the inhabitants of the town. This was a state of things which he thought their lordships must admit could hardly exist in a country where civilized society was established. Later in the year, still nearly a similar event occurred in the town of Charlewood (as we understood). Nearly at the same period, in the last autumn, the Roman Catholic Association was called upon to deliberate on the propriety of adopting measures for ceasing all dealings between Roman Catholics and Protestants. Was it possible to believe-supposing that this measure had been carried into execution, which he firmly believed was in the power of those who deliberated on it to have effected-was it possible to believe that those who could thus cease their deal ings, would not likewise have ceased to carry into execution the contracts into which they had entered? Would any man say, that people in that situation were not verging towards a state, in which it would be impossible to expect from them, that they would be able to perform the duties of jurymen, and to administer justice between man and man for the protection of the lives and property of His Majesty's subjects? This was a state of society to which he wished to direct their lordhips attention, and for which he asserted it was necessary Parliament should provide a remedy.

Before he proceeded to consider what that remedy should be, he wished just to show their lordships what effect this state of society had upon the King's prerogative. His Majesty could not create a peer, and the reason why he could not was this: His Majesty's servants could not venture to recommend

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to him to incur the risk of an election in another part of the country, at which accidents might occur that would lead to the shedding of blood, which might have led to an instantaneous civil war in the country. That was the principal reason why Ministers could not advise His Majesty to exercise his prerogative in the creation of a peer; but he confessed that he had also another reason: he felt the strongest objection to give another triumph to the Roman Catholic Association. They were told, "Why not carry the law into execution?" Why, their lordships would observe, that in all he had stated hitherto, there had been no resistance to the law. magistrates were not called upon to act. There was no resistance to the King's troops; indeed, except in the case of the procession to the north of Ireland, they were never called into duty. There was no instance, therefore, in which the law could be carried into execution. When he heard gentlemen reproach Government for not carrying the law into execution in Ireland as it was carried into execution in England, he must say their observations showed that they did not understand the state of things in Ireland. It was true the law was carried into execution in England in 1819. There were then large bodies of people assembled for illegal purposes; they resisted the orders of the agistrates directing them to disperse, and having resisted these orders, the magistrates called on the troops to disperse them. In the recent cases no orders, were given to the people to disperse. No orders had been given, because no magistrates appeared; and if the orders had been given, there were no troops to disperse them. It was the state of society in Ireland which rendered such events probable every hour: and it was impossible that magistrates could be at every spot, and at every hour, in order to put an end to those outrages which really were a disgrace to the country in which they took place. It then was clearly apparent that neither the the law, nor the other means in the possession of Government, enabled it to put an end to this. state of things. It was therefore necessary to come to Parlia

ment.

Let their lordships see what chance there was of pro

viding a remedy for the state of things he had described by coming to Parliament.

They all knew perfectly well that the opinion of the majority in another place, was, that the remedy for this state of things in Ireland was the removal of the disabilities which affected His Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects. Ministers might have come and asked Parliament to enable them to put down the Roman Catholic Association; but what chance had they of prevailing on Parliament to pass a bill for that purpose, without being prepared to come forward and state that they were ready to consider the whole condition of Ireland, with a view to apply a remedy to that, which Parliament stated to be the cause of the disease? Supposing Parliament had given Government a bill to put down the Roman Catholic Association,—even such a bill as they had passed this year,— would that be a remedy for the state of things which be had already described as existing in Ireland? Would it, he asked, do any one thing towards putting an end to the mischievous consequences of that organization? Would it do any thing towards giving the means of getting a better state of things? But it was said, "If this will not do, let us proceed to blows' What he supposed to be meant by "blows" was civil war. He believed that every government must be prepared to carry into execution the law of the country by the force placed at its disposal, (not by the military force, unless it were absolutely necessary,) in case the disaffected or ill-disposed. be inclined to resist the sentences of the law and authority: but in this case he had already stated there was no resistance to the law. There was nothing that could be called resistance to the law and he might go further, and say he was positively certain that this state of things, bordering on civil war, and being attended with all the evils of civil war,-the state of things which had existed in Ireland, during the last year and a half, might have continued a considerable time longer, to the injury and disgrace of the country of the country; and nevertheless those who managed this state of things-those who were at its head—would have taken care to prevent any resistance to the

law, which must have ended, they knew as well as he did, in the only way in which a struggle against the King's Government, backed by law, could terminate. They knew that they would have been the first victims, in case of resistance being offered to the execution of the law; but knowing that, being sensible and able men, and perfectly aware of the materials with which they were working, this state of things might have existed for years without Government having an opportunity of putting it down in the way which some noble lords wished. He would say, however, that supposing he was certain of possessing such a means of putting down this state of things, he should have considered it his duty to avoid resorting to them.

He had probably passed a longer period of his life in the occupation of war than most men, and principally, he might say, in civil war, and he must say this, that if he could avoid by any sacrifice, even that of his life, one month of civil war in a country to which he was attached, he would cheerfully make it. There was nothing which destroyed property and the resources of prosperity in the same degree as civil war. hand of man was raised against his neighbour, of brother against brother, of father against father; the servant betrayed his master, and the whole scene ended in confusion and devastation. This was the resource to which Government must have looked; this was the last resource to which they could have looked for putting an end to the existing state of things in Ireland, if they had not made the option of bringing forward the measure before their Lordships, for which he was responsible.

Let their Lordships look a little farther. If civil war was bad and to be avoided, when occasioned by resistance to the Government, as in the case to which he had referred; how much worse was it, and how much more to be avoided, when the Government had to arm the people one part against the other? He was sure there were not many who heard him, whose blood would not shudder at such a proposition if it were made to them; yet that was the result to which we must have cɔme, if 4 s

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