only reasonable footing on which the question of compensation can be put, is, not as a purchase-money for a property in the persons of the slaves to be liberated (the legality of which property I wholly deny) -but as a remuneration for loss sustained by the adoption of one mode of culture for another. When loss shall be proved to result from such a change, it will be time enough to compensate it; but compensation without data, and without loss proved, I hold to be in violation of every principle of justice; and to that this Bill pledges the House and the country, and it should, therefore, be rejected.

3rd. As to its granting freedom and improvement to the slaves,--it does neither; but on the contrary, it places them under a system, which, though called freedom, they will soon discover not to be so; and, becoming irritated by the mockery of all their hopes, and the breaking of all the promises held out to them, they will be even more dissatisfied than before. That dissatisfaction will be resented by the master, punished by the magistracy,--denounced by the colonial governments, and, as sure as cause ever produced effect, will bring about a servile insurrection; which, though it may secure their freedom, will throw back their improvement, by the devastations of life and property which such insurrection must occasion, and by keeping the whole population in a state of irritating warfare, instead of calmly pursuing the arts of instruction and peace.

4th. As to the benefit of the West India proprietors :-nothing could so effectually accomplish this, as a Bill which should guarantee to them, on the faith of the nation, the full enjoyment of the actual annual profits now derived from their estates; and the putting by of a fund, say, 20,000,000l. or more, from which any actual loss proved to arise from the cultivation of their estates by free labour instead of by slave labour, should be repaid; for then, freedom being granted to the slave, all parties would be satisfied, and the experiment might be cordially and safely made: but by the present Bill, no such freedom is to be given, no such experiment is to take place and as the disappointment of the slave population, if this Bill should pass into a law, will of necessity beget an insurrection, they will obtain their freedom by their own hands,-the purchase-money to be paid by the nation will be refused,-the whole system of protecting duty and bounties will be overturned, -the very colonies themselves may be lost both to the nation and to individuals, (as America was severed from England, and Hayti from France ;)—and the ruin of all the proprietors will be complete.

I contend, therefore, that the Bill, being defective in principle, ought to be opposed in its present stage; and I only regret that those who consider themselves the leaders on this great question, should not have so opposed it. I have, however, discharged my duty in thus entering my solemn protest against the whole measure: and if I have succeeded in convincing the House that it will fail to effect any one of the objects it proposes to accomplish, I trust that it will be so purged of its defects in its passage through the Committee as to come out of their hands in as different a shape as possible from that which

it now bears, where evil so preponderates, as to make the good-if indeed, it contain any whatever--wholly inoperative and impracticable.

Mr. ANDREW JOHNSTON.-Although many of the details of this measure are, in my opinion, liable to objection, yet, on account of the great principle which it establishes,-namely, the emancipation of the slaves, I will cheerfully concur in the vote for its second reading. It will be time enough, when the Bill is in Committee, to express my objection to the particular clauses of which I disapprove; and for my own part, I feel myself at perfect liberty to act as I please in this respect, for, notwithstanding the resolutions are framed in so specious a manner, I recollect the Right Honourable Secretary for the Colonies stated, on more occasions than one, that he would not hold Honourable Members bound by the specific terms of the resolutions, but that when the Bill should come before the House, they might object to any of its provisions. I think the period of apprenticeship is too long; and when the Right Honourable Secretary converted the loan of 15,000,000l. into a gift of 20,000,000l. I take upon myself to assert, that a large majority of this House expected he would propose to shorten that period. If the Bill should pass without alteration in this respect, I am sure that it will excite great dissatisfaction throughout the country. The people of this country would not grudge the money if it would purchase emancipation, for they are sensible that they must pay a penalty for the national sin of having suffered slavery to exist so long. I hope the Right Honourable Secretary will bear in mind, that, besides the Anti-slavery Society and the colonist, there is a third party to this question,-namely, the people of Great Britain, who are determined to have justice done to the negroes. If the planters have vested rights, it must be allowed that the negroes have vested wrongs.

The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday.

HEARING BY COUNSEL.

TUESDAY, JULY 23.

Mr. GODSON.-Having given notice of the presentation of a petition from certain parties connected with the West India interests, (namely, the planters and merchants interested in Jamaica), praying that they may be heard by their Counsel at the Bar of this House, against the Bill which has been brought in by his Majesty's Government for the abolition of colonial slavery, I beg to ask the Right Honourable Secretary whether there would be any objection to bearing the parties, by their Counsel, at the Bar of the House.

Mr. SECRETARY STANLEY.-I certainly should have a very strong objection to such a proceeding. I am sure the West India proprietors are not without advocates, and very able advocates, in this House.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

WEDNESDAY, JULY 24.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the Order for Committee was read.

Motion made, and question proposed, that the SPEAKER do now leave the Chair.

The Order of the Day was then read, for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on the Slavery Abolition Bill.

On the question that the SPEAKER do leave the Chair,

Mr. FoWELL BUXTON said,— In rising to propose the resolution of which I have given notice, I feel, in common with all who take an interest in this subject throughout the United Kingdom, the deepest disappointment at the course pursued by his Majesty's Government with respect to this Bill. I believe that the general feeling of the country, with respect to this measure, is one of disappointment; and it is considered neither a safe nor a satisfactory measure. We were given to understand that the Bill would be greatly modified; undoubtedly, there have been great and important changes made in the Bill, but I am sorry to say that these changes are not improvements, as they are all for the benefit of the planter, and to the detriment of the negro. I say that these changes are not improvements, because I believe that almost every one of them tends to deteriorate the plan of Government as originally described by the Right Honourable Gentleman; and I am sure that the House can never forget the most eloquent and able speech of the Right Honourable Secretary on this subject-a speech, the main object of which was to shew that we should act with the most egregious folly, if we left any part of the plan to be carried into effect by the colonial legislatures. I have made some extracts from that speech, and as they are more forcible in expression than any language which I can hope, myself, to use, I will at once proceed to read them :-" We should look in vain," said the Right Honourable Secretary,-alluding to the conduct of the colonial assemblies, more especially during ten years that have elapsed since 1823, and with a view of shewing how little had been done by those bodies for the education or improving the moral condition of the negro,-"We should look in vain for anything which, upon the face of it, can be considered as a step towards the final extermination of the system." The Right Honourable Gentleman, in a subsequent part of his eloquent speech, said, that what had been done by the colonial assemblies to carry into effect the Resolutions of 1823, was "a species of compliance worse than mockery; it gives the shadow, but lets slip the substance;" and then went on to quote the language of Mr. Canning, in one of the discussions on the slave trade:

"Trust not the masters of slaves in what concerns legislation for slavery. However specious these laws may appear, depend upon it they must be ineffectual in their application. It is in the nature of

things that they should be so. Let the British House of Commons do their part themselves; let them not delegate the trust of doing so to those who, according to the Honourable Baronet's (Sir William Young's) testimony, cannot execute that trust fairly."

The Right Honourable Gentleman then added, "If I were asked what I would do, I would reply, that I would at once sweep away all the slave laws."

Such was the language of the Right Honourable Gentleman, on introducing this subject to the House; and it therefore was with the utmost surprise and astonishment that I found, on reading the Bill of the Right Honourable Gentleman, no less than twenty-nine topics relating to the feeding, clothing, and lodging, and government of the negroes; and every one of these twenty-nine subjects are expressly assigned to the colonial legislatures. I, however, know the extent of that mischief, and might submit to it: but then I find another clause in the Bill, by which it is left to the colonial legislatures to establish any regulations they please. The clause to which I allude is in page 10, and is in the following terms :—

"And whereas such regulations as aforesaid could not, without great inconvenience, be made, except by the respective Governors, Councils, and Assemblies, or other local legislatures of the said respective colonies, or by his Majesty, with the advice of his Privy Council, in reference to those colonies to which the legislative authority of his Majesty in Council extends; be it therefore enacted and declared, that nothing in this Act contained extends or shall be construed to extend, to prevent the enactment by the respective Governors, Councils, and Assemblies, or by such other local legislatures as aforesaid, or by his Majesty, with the advice of his Privy Council, of any such Acts of General Assembly, or Ordinances, or Orders in Council, as may be requisite for making and establishing such several rules and regulations as aforesaid, or any of them, or for carrying the same or any of them into full and complete effect."

This, then, gives into the hands of the colonial legislatures a complete control in all the details of the measure. I contend, then, that I have now proved that in many, and some of them most material respects, the interests of the negroes have suffered most essentially. But I beg the House to look at the manner in which the interests of the planter have also been advanced in the mean time. His Majesty's Government have for the last twelve months been employed in endeavouring to ascertain the real value of West India property.

The Right Honourable Gentleman told the House in April last, that they had been long engaged in this inquiry; and not very long ago the Right Honourable Gentleman communicated to the House, not only the conclusion at which they had arrived, but the materials from which that conclusion was formed. The Right Honourable Gentleman informed the House that after the strictest inquiries, Government was of opinion that a loan of 15,000,000l. would be a full and sufficient compensation to the planters. Subsequently the loan of 15,000,000l. was converted into a gift of 15,000,000l., and, ultimately, into a grant of 20,000,000l. The effect of this is, that

H

the greatest possible advantage has been conferred upon the West India interest. I happen to know that debts which were considered bad debts in April last are good debts now. Individuals, who were bankrupts in April last, are now solvent. I look upon this measure as one of the most fortunate windfalls that, by any possibility, could have befallen the West India interest. Let the House merely reflect upon what the West Indians have been doing for the last forty years. Have they not been clamouring constantly for relief, and demanding the aid of the Legislature, on the ground that they were in the lowest state of destitution and ruin? Recently they have declared that they are in a worse state than ever. The popular voice became stronger and stronger against the abominations of slavery,-a Government came into power, I will not say hostile to the West India interest, but hostile to slavery,-and then to the surprise of all the world, they, the West Indians, ran away with 20,000,000l. as the supposed value of their property. Now, in getting that sum, I maintain that the planters have got not only a full compensation but an enormous compensation. I am quite ready, and so are the people of England, to give the planters 20,000,000l., if it will secure complete emancipation to the slaves; but certainly not otherwise. I say, distinctly, that if this plan of apprenticing the slaves is persisted in, the planters will get much more than in common justice they are entitled to. I do not say this on any authority of my own, but I contend that, on the evidence of the West Indians themselves, it is more than they are entitled to.

I wish the Committee to recollect the value at which the planters estimated their property a few years ago, when they came to the House, as petitioners, for relief. When they wanted relief, they estimated their condition and the value of their property low enough. Last year, as every body knows, a Select Committee was appointed to inquire into the condition of the West India colonies. Before that Committee was brought a most respectable and intelligent witness, and to whose evidence I wish to call the attention of the House.' This witness, Mr. John Innes, was asked, "How much does it cost you to rear a young negro to the age of fourteen years?"-The answer is, that it costs precisely 2261. 14s. 10d." Not only did Mr. Innes say this, but he said further, that he had taken great pains to investigate the subject—that he had submitted his data to the consideration of several planters and colonists, who were practical men, and they had not been able to detect any practical error in his calculations. It is fair, then, to take the matter on their own showing, and to admit that the negro costs 2261. 14s. 10d. before he is of any great value to the owner. I may here remark that I was not on this Committee, as I was objected to as a prejudiced person by the West Indians. Another witness was then asked, "What do you get by the labour of a negro?"-And the answer is, "Ten hundred weight of sugar per annum." Now, I want to know what sum the planters make by each hundred weight of sugar; and, to obtain this knowledge, I go to the evidence of Mr. Keith Douglas, whose evidence was admitted by the whole of the West Indians to be most satis