THE

DEBATES IN PARLIAMENT

ON THE

SLAVERY ABOLITION BILL.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

On TUESDAY, the 5th FEBRUARY, 1833,

the first business-day of the Session, Mr. T. F. BUXTON gave Notice of a Motion on " Colonial Slavery," for Tuesday the 19th March.

This Notice was entered on the Order Book without comment; but on the following day,

WEDNESDAY, FEB. 6.

Mr. FOWELL BUXTON said, I beg, for one moment, to direct the attention of the House to a subject relative to which the public feel a deep interest; I mean negro slavery. All allusion to that question having unfortunately been omitted in the Speech from the Throne, I felt it my duty immediately to give notice on the subject; but no person is more convinced than I am, that the subject is one which could be better intrusted to the hands of the Government, than to those of an individual. I now ask, whether it is the intention of his Majesty's Government to take up the subject during the present Session? If not, I shall certainly feel it my duty to bring it forward at an early period.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—I have no hesitation in stating that the Government have exerted, and are continuing to exert, their best endeavours to frame a measure on this subject; and I have every reason to hope and believe-nay, to feel confidentthat we shall be able to propose to the House a measure accordingly, which will be at once safe and satisfactory.

B

LORD COLVILLE'S NOTICE OF MOTION.

FRIDAY, FEB. 15.

LORD COLVILLE gave notice, without comment, that on Thursday next, the 21st February, he should move for the re-appointment of the Select Committee on the State of the West India Colonies.

On MONDAY, FEB. 18.

however, his Lordship, reminding the House of the notice thus given, said" but considering the business your Lordships have before you "for this week, it is my intention to defer submitting that motion "until Tuesday, the 26th instant."

On TUESDAY, FEB. 26.

I

LORD COLVILLE said,-My Lords, I rise, I confess, with considerable reluctance, to postpone my motion for the re-appointment of the Select Committee on the state of the West India colonies. should feel still more regret than I do now experience, if this postponement were attributable to any fault of mine, but such is not the case. I think it fair to state the real cause of this postponement. I was yesterday informed by that respectable body, the Committee representing the West India Interest, that the Noble Secretary for the Colonies had requested an interview with them, for the purpose of submitting to their consideration a plan proposed to be adopted by Government for the settlement of the question, and those gentlemen having no wish whatever to embarrass the Government (any more than I have myself), have most readily consented to the postponement of the motion for the present. For my own part, having no object in view but to assist the colonists in eliciting truth and obtaining justice, I at once consented to propose this postponement.

My Lords, having more than once called your attention to this subject, I take this opportunity to observe, that there does not exist an individual who is less connected with, or interested in, West Indian property than myself; and I have undertaken the task of moving for the re-appointment of the Committee at the request of the body alluded to, solely because I thought their object to be a fair investigation. I had little doubt that I should have been able to convince your Lordships of the propriety of acceding to the motion of which I gave notice; but I shall not enter more fully into particulars at present-the plan to be proposed by the Noble Viscount being certainly entitled to every consideration. I am sorry that the reasons which call for this postponement prevent me from fixing another day for bringing forward the motion, it being impossible to name a day till an opportunity is afforded for taking the plan of Government into consideration. I hope that the cause of the colonies may not suffer from this postponement, and pledge myself at the earliest possible moment to fix a day for bringing the subject forward again."

Order discharged.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

WEDNESDAY, FEB. 27.

Mr. GODSON.-I hold in my hand the petition of a gentleman named James Window, of Craig's Court, Charing Cross, on the subject of negro slavery, and I beg to call the attention of the House to the contents of this petition. I feel great pleasure in being the first person to present a practical plan which has for its object the emancipation of the slaves in the West Indies. The petitioner states that he has spent many years in collecting information on this subject, and that he has made numerous calculations which bear upon that question, and refer immediately to the plan which he thinks it advisable should be adopted. I will not detain the House by entering into a detailed statement of the calculations which are involved in this proposition; but I may mention that the result at which the petitioner arrives is, that the emancipation of the slaves may be completed in five, ten, or fifteen years, without much loss either to the Government or the planter. This gentleman suggests that the Government should issue debentures; that taking it for granted that there may be sixty thousand slaves emancipated in each year, and estimating their value at 501. each, a sum of 3,000,000l. should be raised by issuing debentures; then the Government should take those slaves under their protection. After the slaves are taken under the care of the Crown, a labour rate is to be levied by which the planter and the slave would each pay back the money advanced. Thus the Government of the country would lose but little, while the slave by having been placed under the protection of the Government, would be in a proper state to be left to himself; while the planter would receive back some portion of his property. All parties, the slave, the planter, and the Government, would all make some sacrifice. I think, however, that this plan is not one which is likely to meet with the sanction of either party; because those who wish for the immediate abolition of slavery, will not consent to wait for a period of five or ten years for the attainment of that object. But as the petitioner believes that he has discovered a plan which he conceives may be practicable, I feel great pleasure in presenting his petition; and as a person connected with the West India interest, I will say for myself, and on behalf of others, who, like myself, are deeply interested in this question,-that we shall be glad to see the matter settled in a manner which, in the words of the Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer, may be safe and satisfactory to all parties,

Mr. COBBETT.-I doubt not, Sir, but that there will be schemes enough of this sort laid before the House, and as we have but little business to do, some of those which may come before us, will afford the House, perhaps some amusement. All, however, I can say is,that as far as I am concerned, I never will give my consent to any scheme which shall take one farthing out of the pockets of the people of England, Ireland, or Scotland. It is a common practice,

on these occasions, to talk of the compensation to be made to certain parties; but I say that either the thing is right, or it is wrong. I maintain that we must either continue the system of slavery, or we must abolish it altogether. But the people are not to be taxed in either case; and I should like to know how this money, after having been wrung from the people's pockets, is to be returned to them: we always find, in every scheme of this sort, the first consideration invariably is, how much compensation is to be made?—and when compensation is named, we know it is intended that it shall be paid out of the taxes which are imposed upon an overtaxed people. The question is always raised, as to what indemnification (as it is called) shall be granted to the West India proprietors. Before long, I shall have occasion to bring before the House a case of compensation in the West Indies,- for what I say was as flagrant a robbery as ever was committed.

Mr. GODSON.-On a question of this nature I trust I may be permitted to say a few words, in reply to what has fallen from the Honourable Member for Oldham, who really does not seem to understand the plan which is proposed by the petitioner. The Honourable Gentleman complains of the taxation which will result from carrying the suggestion into effect; but the point to which I particularly directed the attention of the House was, that there would be no tax levied on the people, because the slaves themselves were to pay back the money by means of a labour rate. I did not, perhaps, state the case plainly, but the plan is simply this-that the interest of these debentures would be paid by a labour rate, which would take money from the planters; and I think it right that the slaves, by working for themselves under the protection of Government, should pay back the money advanced; and thus they would become fit for the change from a state of slavery to a state of freedom. At present, Sir, I shall say no more beyond expressing my hope that whenever other " schemes " may be brought forward, no Honourable Member will condemn them as mere matters of amusement, until they have at least read them. But as I know that at the late general election the West India proprietors were obliged to bear the brunt of the "no slavery" cry, I hope no other Member will consider these schemes as brought forward for the amusement of the House. To the West India proprietors, I can only say, the subject is one which is anything but amusing. I really think it is too much to say, that when an individual brings forward a practical plan, any Honourable Member, without making himself acquainted with the matter, should at once denounce it as a mere matter of amusement. On the contrary, I say that it will not satisfy all parties; but this is an additional cause why the House should inquire into it. It is, at least, the first attempt towards settling a long agitated and important question, and relates to the welfare of several thousands of persons in Great Britain and in the West India islands.

Mr. HARVEY.-I undoubtedly feel that every scheme having for its object the emancipation of slaves, is entitled to the serious attention of the House; but at the same time I think that the

Honourable and Learned Member who spoke last, confounds " emancipation" with " compensation." Now, these are two very distinct objects, and the condition of emancipation must not be that of compensation. The former must precede the latter; and whatever claim to compensation those who keep slaves may have, must be matter left for a totally separate consideration. But I apprehend that an objection, much more serious than that which has been urged by the Honourable Member for Oldham, exists in respect to those who have a property (as it is termed), in slaves; because the petitioner proposes that the expense incurred to obtain the emancipation of these unfortunate beings is to be liquidated in a manner which is opposed to all humanity or justice; that is to say, they are to buy out their own freedom. The owners of the slaves, as they irreligiously call themselves, will no doubt submit some similar proposition to the House; but in my opinion, if any persons are entitled to compensation, it is the slaves themselves; those very men whose lives, and feelings, and strength have been unwillingly devoted to the service of the planters.

Dr. BALDWIN.-It strikes me, Sir, that if this compensation is to be raised from the working of slaves, under the idea that they will be enabled from their altered position to subsist comfortably, and to pay up the amount of these debentures, that the plan suggested is one which must be utterly futile. Now, when we see that a great portion of the labouring classes in England and Ireland cannot obtain sufficient to support themselves by their labour,—I would ask, how can we expect that the slaves of the West Indies will be able not only to support themselves, but also to pay up these debentures? There should be another provision attached to this plan, with a view to securing the repayment, in such a case, of the money advanced; namely, that these slaves should insure their lives. Suppose, for instance, that the cholera morbus should make its appearance among these poor slaves, what then becomes of their labour,-how is the money to be repaid? On the whole, Sir, I can only arrive at this conclusion,-that it is meant to be said, that it would be an act of justice to the people of England and Ireland to tax them, in order to purchase from the West India planters a power which they have no right to possess. I say that it is an insult to humanity, and to the rights of mankind to suppose that slaves ought to be bound to purchase their freedom from those who ought never to have exercised any control over their liberty. I certainly cordially support the opinion which has been advocated by the Honourable Member for Oldham.

Mr. BERNAL. I regret that this discussion should have arisen, on the occasion of the presentation of a petition by my Honourable Friend. With the proposed plan of Mr. Window, or of any other gentleman, I have nothing whatever to do,-nor will I here volunteer any opinions upon its merits or demerits, as I feel that I shall best discharge my duty by leaving the consideration of such a scheme to a more fitting occasion. But, Sir, I have been induced, more particularly, to rise, from the tenour of the language which