HOUSE OF LORDS.

THURSDAY, MARCH 28.

LORD SUFFIELD.-I rise to present three petitions to your Lordships, on the subject of colonial slavery, which are most deserving of your attention, in consequence of the multitude of signatures attached to them. I confess, my Lords, that it is contrary to my original intention that I present these petitions to your Lordships; but I am induced, in consequence of peculiar circumstances, to depart from that intention, and I therefore take the opportunity when a question is coming before the House which has attracted a larger assemblage of Noble Lords than is usually brought together, to bring three of the most important petitions in my possession under your notice. At the same time, I must repeat, that I have not the least hesitation in stating, that I do so, contrary to my original intention. Certain rumours have lately been afloat respecting the plan of emancipation to be proposed by Government, which I confess have produced in my mind, and I believe in that of the public, the greatest consternation. I do not mean to say that those rumours have lessened the general confidence which I am disposed to place in his Majesty's Ministers, or cause me to regard with distrust their intentions with respect to the particular question to which the petitions I hold in my hand refer. I feel convinced that the principles of my Noble Friends near me are sound and right, and I have no doubt that they are fully disposed to act upon them; but yet I am not blind to the formidable array of prejudice and false notions of self-interest with which they have to contend. I am anxious, therefore, to obtain for them such support throughout the country, and such a decided expression of the national feeling, as can alone enable them to encounter the opponents of the settlement of this question. The petitioners pray for total and immediate emancipation; and I trust that other petitions which I shall, hereafter, have the honour to present, in consequence of what has gone forth on this subject, will more distinctly declare that nothing short of total and immediate emancipation will satisfy the people of England. Now, my Lords, allow me to explain what is meant by the word "immediate," as used in these petitions, and also by the members of the Anti-Slavery Society, feeling, as I do, how necessary it is for me to do this, in consequence of the pains which have been taken to abuse the public mind, and to mislead them as to the intent and meaning of the word " immediate" so employed by us. By "immediate emancipation" is meant-not that the slaves shall be at once liberated on the sending out of a despatch, or the sailing of a ship-but that, at the earliest possible period, there shall take place a substitution of legal restraint for the present absolute and irresponsible power of the slave master. In that proposition, I entirely concur; and sure I am, that when the people of England are made acquainted with what has passed on this subject, they will call for total and immediate emancipation as strenuously, as decidedly, as they called for reform two years ago.

The first petition which I shall have the honour of laying on the Table comes from the inhabitants of Edinburgh, and is signed by 21,291 persons. The petitioners state, " that every year the mind of the intelligent portion of society has become more strongly convinced that slavery is essentially iniquitous-hostile to the best interests both of the master and the servant-and utterly ruinous to colonial property; that notwithstanding the very slow-because impeded-progress of educational light, the slave population is rapidly approaching a period at which further submission to their miserable lot will be refused; and when the continuance of coercion would most probably entail an expenditure of human life, at which Christian benevolence shudders, and which no sound principle could justify the hazarding; -that the interlinking of the slave with the free black and coloured population is now so extensive, as to give a mighty preponderance of the oppressed over the opppressor, unless that preponderance be balanced by a foreign force, which it is vain, if not impracticable, any longer to maintain ;-that, in the mean time, the slave-holder, instead of making progress with the national mind, in favour of conceding to the slave, even in distant prospect, the enjoyment of his rights, is retrograding towards measures of avowed tyranny; and has recently exhibited, in the profuse expenditure of human blood-in the destruction of places of religious worship-in the wanton exposure of Christian ministers to criminal trial-and in the yet more recent measures for the exclusion of religious teachers,—an utter want of sympathy with those views and feelings which bave been almost unanimously expressed throughout the British empire, against their iniquitous system ;- that, under these circumstances, your petitioners have no course left to them, but to approach once more the Bar of your Right Honourable House, and respectfully, but firmly, to demand, without delay, the entire emancipation of their unjustly enslaved brethren and fellow subjects;-that they know no ground on which this assumed superiority of man over man-of the white race over the black, can be vindicated;-they know no principle of expediency on which it can be justifiably retained ;-they see no possibility of its much longer endurance under any state of circum

stances.

My Lords, I say that there is not a person, who is acquainted with the state of the West Indies, but feels that such is the fact; but while I admit that difficulties may exist on the one side, I say the danger is all on the other; and I would not, for worlds, have that responsibility weighing upon me which will rest upon his Majesty's Ministers, if they delay the settlement of this question. Again the petitioners state-“While, therefore, the tide of events is still within the influence of your most Honourable House, they ask, respectfully, the accomplishment, by salutary enactment, of that change in the relations of the fettered operative and his master, which must otherwise be speedily brought about by the peremptory control of more appalling, but irresistible movements." They ask liberty of person, and equal rights, for the black man, indiscriminately with the white, in every quarter of the British dominions. They ask for the imme

diate emancipation of their fellow men, from the thraldom and tyranny of a petty private jurisdiction, which no legal enactment can sanctify, which no legal superintendence, however vigilant, can control,—and which is utterly abhorrent to the first principles of the British Constitution. In fine, my Lords, I think—indeed, I am sure —that when the rumours which are afloat become known throughout the country, they will produce one unanimous prayer for total and immediate emancipation. I think it is the duty of every Englishman, at this most momentous crisis, to raise his voice and cry for total and immediate abolition of negro slavery, if such shall beas I cannot doubt it will be-his wish and desire.

LORD ELLENBOROUGH.-I certainly, my Lords, am not aware what the rumours are to which the Noble Lord has alluded; and I think it would have been more convenient if he had stated to us what the reports are which have excited so much alarm on this subject. Without entertaining any particular confidence in his Majesty's Ministers, I certainly should be extremely unwilling to take the responsibility from them, of the settlement of the question of negro slavery, to impose it on the Noble Baron in their stead. In common with the Noble Baron, I must say that I did expect we should have been called upon by his Majesty's Ministers, ere this, to discuss this question; and I confess that I deeply regret such has not been the case, for I consider that the state in which this question stands at present, is of such a nature that it must be productive-I will not say, merely of inconvenience-but of danger to the public interests. The question at this moment may actually be considered as suspended; and if his Majesty's Ministers have prepared any plan, it is highly desirable that they should produce it, and subject it to the investigation of Parliament. The delay in doing so, tends to create difficulties, which may frustrate the carrying into effect the intentions of Parliament as declared in 1823, and may defeat the reasonable wishes of the people. The uncertainty in which the matter stands now, both here and in the West Indies, must create in the minds both of the planters and the slaves, feelings that will render it difficult, if not almost impossible, for Parliament to adopt, hereafter, any measure beneficial to the great interests of the country, and capable of being carried into effect with safety to the colonies. I deprecate delay, but at the same time I wish to avoid precipitancy; and I hope that when the plan to be brought forward by his Majesty's Ministers shall be produced, it will appear that they have taken a more able and statesmanlike view of the subject, than appears to be entertained by the Noble Baron. Yet whatever their views may be, I must be permitted to say that I think great public mischief does result from their not declaring what those views are.

LORD SUFFIELD.-Only a few words, my Lords, as to the rumours to which I alluded. I certainly am not very fond of referring to articles in newspapers, but I have seen in a newspaper a plan of emancipation-partaking of a demi-official character-which I think will not satisfy the people of England; and in conversations which I have had with persons connected with the West Indies, I have heard

them speak of arrangements coinciding very much with the plan published in the newspapers. I am convinced, however, that any plan contemplating the existence of slavery, one single day beyond the time which is absolutely necessary for making arrangements to secure the safety of the colonies,-will not be satisfactory to the people of England; nor do I believe that such a plan would be satisfactory to his Majesty's Ministers-so confirmed am I in the opinion that it is their determination to act upon right principles. One word as to delay. I certainly am not in the confidence of his Majesty's Ministers they are perfectly able to answer for themselves. I am not responsible for their conduct, either as regards delay or precipitancy; but I believe his Majesty's Ministers did consult the West India proprietors who have such a deep interest in this question. I think they did wisely in doing so but then I say the delay which has taken place is to be attributed to the difficulties which have been thrown in the way by that body,-difficulties of a nature that prevented measures having been brought before Parliament. I say the delay has been caused by the opposition of the planter. I am quite aware and ready to admit, that if emancipation can be carried into effect with the consent of the planter, it would be best for the interests of the slave; but I repeat it is the West India proprietors, and not his Majesty's Ministers, upon whom the responsibility rests of having occasioned this delay. However, I know nothing on the subject more than I gain from common rumour and common report. I have to apologize to your Lordships for troubling you with more words than I intended, and I now beg to present to you a petition from the inhabitants of Sheffield on this subject, signed by 11,100 persons. The prayer of this petition differs considerably from that which I had just now the honour of presenting; it prays for the total and immediate abolition of negro slavery throughout the colonies of the British empire, and that such regulations may be adopted as may be deemed proper to secure the independence and happiness of the negro.

VISCOUNT GODERICH.-After what has passed, your Lordships will perhaps excuse me if I say a few words upon this matter. With respect to the rumours of the intentions of Government as to the subject of colonial slavery, it is of course quite impossible that I can be answerable for them. Even the Noble Lord himself does not seem to place much reliance, by the manner in which he has stated them, upon those reports. The Noble Lord at first did not state what they were, and afterwards he referred to some extract from a newspaper. Every one must agree with me, that it was not necessary for the Government to undertake to explain rumours founded on such loose authority. The Noble Lord then said, with respect to the delay of which he complained, that it arose from that particular body of persons who are interested in the consideration of this great question. I am not conscious that there has been anything which can fairly and strictly be called delay. In a matter of this kind, it is the duty of the Government to give their utmost consideration to views and circumstances which necessarily belong to so

intricate a matter; and I think, therefore that no charge of delay can be substantiated against the Government; and it is consequently, not my business to state any communication which has taken place, or any result which may follow. I am perfectly aware of the importance of the subject. It would be strange if I were not. I am equally aware that the sense of Parliament should be taken upon it at the earliest period; but I, nevertheless, must take the liberty of saying, that if the wish for bringing forward this subject at an earlier period of this Session had been complied with, it would have been anything but advantageous or satisfactory, with a view to the settlement of the question.

EARL FITZWILLIAM.--I wish to trouble your Lordships with a few remarks, with regard to the delay which has been made the subject of observation. When my Noble Friend said that the question must be early settled, he did not mean that the people wished it to be precipitated; and for myself, I will at once say, that I think the question ought not to be brought forward till the undivided attention of both branches of the Legislature can be given to it. I am the person who has most recently taken his seat in your Lordships' House, and I, more recently than any of you, have been in contact with large bodies of the people; and I can tell your Lordships, most of whom from your habits are less in the habit of meeting large bodies of persons than I am, that you are not well aware of the strong feeling that exists among the people on this matter. There was a time when this question was confined to the large towns, and when secluded districts, and the distant agricultural quarters of the country knew nothing of it: but at this moment these places are as anxious on the subject as any others. If your Lordships do not decide this question satisfactorily to the people, you cannot be, what I contend you are to a certain extent, as much as the other branch of the Legislature, although not elected by the mass of the community-the representatives of the people.

The DUKE of BUCKINGHAM.-It certainly is not my intention, my Lords, to enter into any debate on this most important question. But I regret as much as the noble Lord, or, indeed, as any Noble Lord can do, that a measure for the settlement of this question has not ere now been brought forward. I say it was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers to have brought forward some such motion; and that it was not brought forward, I can tell my Noble Friend,—if he will allow me to call him so,-has not been the fault of the West India proprietors. Their anxious desire was that such should be the case; their regret is, that they have been disappointed. I lament that his Majesty's Ministers have not made up their minds on this subject; they have held out promises to the ear, but they have disappointed, in effect, the hopes of the West India proprietors. I lament, also, that they have been in indirect communication with a part of that body to whom they have told their hopes, their wishes, and their disputes; all of which were kept a secret from the general body of the West India proprietors. This is the cause of the delay