because they could not get quarters in the camp; but I know nothing about what was paid for it. The commission then adjourned to meet on Tuesday, March 28, 1865, at two o'clock p. m. COURT-ROOM, CINCINNATI, OHIO, March 28, 1865-2 o'clock p. m. The commission met pursuant to adjournment. All the members present except Colonel Benjamin Spooner; also present the judge advocate, and the assistant counsel, the accused and their counsel. The proceedings were read and approved. HENRY A. P. PHELPS, a witness for the accused, was then introduced, and being duly sworn by the judge advocate, testified as follows: By the accused: Q. State your name, residence, and occupation. A. Henry A. Phelps; I have resided in Chicago since a year ago last July; I keep a hotel there known as the Avery House, on the corner of State and Second streets. Q: Do you know Dr. J. Winslow Ayer? Q. Where did you first become acquainted with him? A. At his office; he was doctoring me for throat disease. Q. Are you the same person that Dr. Ayer referred to as being the only honest man he could get to join the Sons of Liberty? A. I suppose I am the one he referred to. Q. Where did you first learn there was such an organization as the Sons of Liberty? A. At Dr. Ayer's office. Q. When? A. In the summer of 1864. Q. How many times did you hear that order spoken of before you joined it? A. He spoke about it several times before I became a member. Q. At whose request did you join the Sons of Liberty? A. At the request of Dr. Ayer. Q. How many different times did he ask you before you joined? A. The Sons of Liberty. Q What did he tell you the objects of the order were? A. He said it was a democratic organization, and that it was got up as an offset to the Loyal League. Q. What did he say he knew about the Loyal League at that time? A. He said they were armed; that he knew it. I told him I had never heard of their being armed, and asked him how he knew it. He said he had seen their arms; that he had been in one of the halls where they met. I asked him how he got in. He said he met a man a friend of his, who was a mason, and this man inquired if he was going to the lodge; he said he would, and he went right along with this man, and he went to the Loyal League meeting. He said he saw their arms, and that he saw what he wanted and then came out. Q. Was there anybody else in his office that he introduced as a mason? A. Yes, sir; a man by the name of Alexander. Q. Did Ayer know at that time that you were a mason? A. Yes, sir; I introduced myself to him as a masou, the first time I went to his office. Q. What had he done in his office that let you know that he knew you were a mason? A. He lectured a man for over an hour on the first three degrees in his office in my presence. Q. Who vouched for you when you joined this order? A. Dr. Ayer. Q. When did you first know that there was such an order as the Sons of Liberty? A. Not until Dr. Ayer told me about it. Q. What occurred between you and Dr. Ayer after you went to the first meeting of the Sons of Liberty? A. He told me to come on such a night; I went up and joined; when we came down stairs, at his request I went into his office. He asked me how I liked it. I told him I didn't like it very well. This was the same evening I joined, and I told him I did not think I should go any more. He said I had not learned much about it, and that he wanted me to come again and get all the democrats I could. Q. Why did he say that he wanted you to get all the democrats you could? A. He said he wanted to get all the democrats he could. Q. Did he give any reason for this? A. He said they would be more apt to vote the democratic ticket. He said he was as anxious to have McClellan elected as I was. Q. Did you go to the Sons of Liberty a second time? A. Yes, sir; I went the second time, and I spoke to several who lived in my neighborhood, and they said they would come, and one went up with me. His name was Edwin Bunbridge; we went up to the doctor's office and Mr. Bunbridge went with me. I introduced Mr. Bunbridge to him, and he said he knew him, and the doctor appeared to know him, and that he had met him in the masonic lodge. Q. What then occurred? A. I told the doctor I had brought him up with me to join the Sons of Liberty, and that I was afraid he would not like it any better than I did, and I was sorry I had brought him. He said I knew nothing about it as yet. Q. What do you know as to the kind of persons they were that you met at the institution? A. I told him that there was no one there that I knew, and that I did not like the appearance of the people I had met the first time, and that Ifcould not come again. He said there were many that belonged to it that were not there, and he wanted me to come again, but I did not go any more. Q. Did he say anything to you about what they were going to do about the convention? A. He spoke about it and said that the convention might be interrupted, and that they would arrest Vallandigham, and that the democrats would be on hand to fight. Q. What did he say the object of the order was with reference to the election ? A. He said they were all going to be armed, and that he thought the demo. crats would not be allowed to vote for democrats at the election, and that this order were all going to be armed to protect themselves at the polls, if there should be any trouble. Q. Did he say anything about the officers of the order? A. I made a little fun of it; that it did not amount to anything; that there H. Ex. Doc. 50-32 was nobody there that I cared about; but he said that there were many of the best men belonged to it; that they were all organized and had officers and brigadier generals. Q. What did he say about brigadier generals? A. He said the brigadier general was a man by the name of Walsh, who lived near Cottage Grove. Q. Did you afterwards see Mr. Walsh? A. Yes, sir; I saw him once. He came into my house on the corner of State and Second streets. Q. Who was there besides Mr. Walsh? A. There were quite a number there. Mr. Campbell was there. Q. Is this the only conversation you had with Mr. Walsh upon the subject of guns? A. I never saw him except that time until I saw him to-day. Q. What was said at the time with reference to the election? (Question objected to and withdrawn.) Q. Did you communicate to Dr. Ayer anything of the conversation that occurred between you and Mr. Walsh at the time you speak of? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that the only interview that ever occurred between you and Mr. Walsh, and the only one that you ever communicated to Dr. Ayer? A. Yes, sir; it is the only time I ever saw the doctor; I told him what the conversation was. Q. What was said in this conversation? (The testimony was objected to by the judge advocate, as hearsay and incompetent. The court was cleared for deliberation. On being reopened the judge advocate announced that the objection was sustained.) Q. Did you join this order to assist Dr. Ayer in some special service? A. No, sir. Q. Did Walsh ever tell you that the arms were snugly packed and would defy all scrutiny? (The question was objected to by the judge advocate, and the question was withdrawn.) Q. Did you ever tell Dr. Ayer that Walsh had told you that he “had arms snugly packed, that would defy all scrutiny?" A. No, sir. I told him that Mr. Walsh said he had arms. Q. Did Walsh ever tell you any such thing? (The question was objected to by the judge advocate as incompetent. The court was cleared for deliberation. On being reopened the judge advocate announced that the objection was sustained.) Q. Did you ever tell Dr. Ayer that Walsh asked you if you had a secure place in which to store arms? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever tell Dr. Ayer that you declined any application of Walsh to take arms? A. No, sir. Q. State whether or not you did decline to take any arms offered you by Walsh. A. I did not. Q. Did you offer to take them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever state to Dr. Ayer that Mr. Walsh had told you that he had made other deposits of arms in other parts of the city with those who could be trusted? A. No, sir. Q. Did Dr. Ayer at any time, either before or after you joined this order, warn you against any danger that would arise to you in consequence of joining? A. No, sir; he never did. Q. Did you ever ask Dr. Ayer to propose your name that you might become a member of the Sons of Liberty? A. I never asked him; to I think, probably I told him he might. The doctor proposed to me that I should become a member, and I probably told him he might offer my name. Q. Did you go to Ayer's office two or three times to see him on this subject? A. No, sir; I never went to his office to see him on this subject at all. Dr. Ayer was attending me at the time as a patient. Q. What did Dr. Ayer say to you about his being driven out of Kentucky? A. He spoke about being driven out of Kentucky on account of his political opinions, and he spoke about people being arrested and sent to prison without a trial, and other things. He said there were a great many illegal arrests. Q. What did he say would occur to the inhabitants of Chicago if they did not arm themselves? A. He said the democrats would not be allowed to vote. I told him I had not seen any trouble, but he said I did not know what had occurred in Kentucky, and that the administration would do the same thing in Chicago if they had the power. Q. Did you, in the conversation you have testified to, when you informed him of what Walsh had told you, did you inform Dr. Ayer that you had offered to take those arms? A. Yes, sir; I did. Q. Did you, in that conversation, inform him of the manner in which Walsh informed you he would send you the arms? A. Yes, sir. I told him every word Walsh said. Q. Did you, in that conversation, tell him that Walsh proposed to send you two boxes of arms on the horse cars? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did Dr. Ayer know what your business was in the city of Chicago? A. Yes, sir; he has been at my house. Q. Have you ever seen Dr. Ayer since he has been a witness here? A. I just met him in the street one evening and spoke to him. Q. What did he say to you about what was going on in Cincinnati ? (Question objected to as incompetent, and withdrawn.) Q. Did he not meet you on the street in Chicago, since he testified here, and say that they were giving them hell in Cincinnati ? A. Yes, sir; I just met him on the street, and he said "They are giving those fellows hell in Cincinnati," and he desired me to come over to his office. was about two weeks ago. I did not go to his office. That Q. Did you relate to Dr. Ayer at the time of the interview that he testifies to, what had occurred and all that was said between you and Walsh? A. Yes, sir. Q. You may tell all that you told Dr. Ayer of what did occur between you and Walsh at that time. A. I told the doctor I had seen his brigadier general that he told me about. He wanted to know what he said. I told him that Mr. Campbell had given me an introduction to him, and in the conversation there was something said about the election, and some one of us asked if there was to be any trouble at the election. Walsh said he hoped not. I asked Walsh if the democrats were going to be armed, and whether or not he had any arms. He said "Yes," he was going to have some arms, and he asked Campbell if he had some place where he could put a couple of boxes of arms, and he said no. He then turned to me and asked me the same thing, and he said he would send me two small boxes on the horse-car, and the next time I saw Ayer I told him this exact conversation as it occurred between Walsh and myself. Q. Did you ever hear from any quarter, in or out of the Sons of Liberty, that Walsh was a brigadier general except what Dr. Ayer told you? A. No, sir; that was all, until after he was arrested. Q. Did you ever hear, in or out of the order, of any attempt to release prisoners at Camp Douglas or burn the city of Chicago? A. I never did. By ROBERT HERVEY, esq.: Q. Did you ever meet Judge Morris ? A. Yes, sir; I met him in the order the second and last time I attended. That is the only place I ever saw him except here to day. Q. When were you initiated? A. It was before the democratic convention, I think, but I am not positive. It was after Dr. Ayer became a member of the order. I know it was a warm night when I became a member, but I do not remember the exact time. Q. Was Judge Morris present at the time of your initiation A. No, sir; nor during the evening. The only time I ever saw Judge Morris in the order was on the last occasion I attended a meeting. Q. Did the judge address the meeting on that occasion? A. Yes, sir; for a few minutes. Q. Did he make any reference to the prisoners at Camp Douglas, or any project to sack and burn the city of Chicago? A. No, sir; nothing of the kind. Q. Did you ever from the Sons of Liberty, in or out of the order, understand that any objects of the order were to release the prisoners at Camp Dougias? A. No, sir; never. Q. Did you ever hear, in or out of the order, that it was one of the objects and purposes of the order to sack and burn the city of Chicago? A. No, sir; never. Q. Dr. Ayer has stated that you did not join the order at his request; is that true? A. I joined at his request. Q. So that when Dr. Ayer states that you did not join the order at his request he states what is untrue, does he? A. Yes, sir; he does. Q. Dr. Ayer states that he did not advise you to become a member of it; is that true? A. He said he would like me to become a member of it. Q. Dr. Ayer states that he said nothing as to the objects and character of the order; is that true or false? A. It is false. Q. Did you ever tell Ayer that you had refused to take charge of some arms that Walsh had desired you to take charge of? A. I never did. Q. Did you tell Dr. Ayer that Walsh had made a deposit of arms with persens on whom he could rely? A. No, sir. (The manner of questioning the witness was objected to by the judge advocate as leading and advertising the witness as to the answers desired. The court was cleared for deliberation. On being reopened the judge advocate announced that the objection was sustained.) Q. Do you recall the purport of Judge Morris's speech on the occasion when you heard him address the Sons of Liberty? A. He spoke about the coming election. He said he thought Lincoln would |