[No. 17.]

COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS,
Tuesday, February 17, 1914.

The committee this day met, Hon. Lemuel P. Padgett (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. We will first hear Mr. Humphrey, of Washington. Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Curry, of California, is present, and if it suits the committee I would prefer that you hear him first.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. You may proceed, Mr. Curry.

STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES F. CURRY, A MEMBER OF CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

Mr. CURRY. I sincerely hope that before the next session of Congress the Committee on Naval Affairs will have the opportunity to visit and thoroughly inspect the Mare Island Navy Yard. Such a visit to the yard I feel confident would convince the committee that the yard is properly located, well equipped with machinery, and efficiently officered and splendidly manned with expert mechanics.

The citizens of Vallejo would like to have you make that trip as their guests. I believe if the committee could visit all of the yards it would greatly assist the Members in preparing legislation, would benefit the yards and the service, and would enable the committee to obtain at first hand that knowledge of the actual conditions and needs of the yards it ought to have to enable it to recommend proper appropriations, efficient policies, and economical administrations.

The location of Mare Island, at the mouth of Napa River, opposite the city of Vallejo, is undoubtedly the very best site on our Pacific coast for a navy yard. It is situated in the best harbor on the Pacific Ocean, just across the bay from San Francisco, the great commercial, financial, manufacturing, and shipping metropolis of the Pacific, and the harbor and railway development being prosecuted on the east side of the bay will add to its strategic value. In time of war it will be safe from attack from outside the Heads, and could only be in jeopardy in the event of a hostile fleet being in possession of the bay. The Government has 1,400 acres of building site with a water front of an ample depth on its operative line for the accommodation of the largest ships, and being inland, is free from the destructive elements found in salt water. The yard is also protected by its location from storms.

The addition of a dreadnaught dry dock and a few minor improvements and rearrangements would make Mare Island the model navy yard in the United States. As it is, she is adequately equipped to build a battleship, and her executive officers and mechanics are

second to none in the world. If given the opportunity Mare Island will build a battleship that will be the pride not only of California, but of the Nation, and she will build it as cheaply as it can be built in any yard in the country.

Mr. BRITTEN. May I interrupt?

Mr. CURRY. Certainly.

Mr. BRITTEN. They have built some vessels at the Mare Island Navy Yard?

Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir; but not a battleship.

Mr. BRITTEN. What is the largest vessel built there?

Mr. CURRY. A collier, about two-thirds the size of a battleship. The CHAIRMAN. Not two-thirds. The battleships we are now building are more than double the size of a collier. A collier will run something like 12,000 or 13,000 tons.

Mr. CURRY. The dock at Mare Island by being lengthened a little is of ample size at the present time to construct a battleship. Capt. Mayo, now admiral, who, until a year ago, was the commandant at Mare Island, and Capt. Bennett, the present commandant, stated that the dock at Mare Island is of ample size-with the exception of an extension in length, which could be done very cheaplyin which to construct a battleship.

The Mare Island Navy Yard and the New York Navy Yard are the only Government yards at present fully equipped with the men and machinery necessary to construct a battleship. The climate of Mare Island is ideal, and makes it possible for a man to work without discomfort from heat or cold every week in the year. Better work at less cost to the Government is turned out at Mare Island than at any other Government or private shipbuilding yard in the country.

The collier Vestal, built as the New York Navy Yard, cost $60,000 more than her sister ship, Prometheus, built at Mare Island. The training ship Cumberland, built at the Boston Navy Yard, cost $10,000 more than the Intrepid, built at Mare Island. Two steel targets, built at the Norfolk Navy Yard, cost $5,000 more than similar targets built at Mare Island, and as a further evidence of the quality and economy of the work done there the repairs on Army transports. revenue cutters, and Fish Commission boats are frequently awarded to the Mare Island Yard.

A little more than a year ago, Capt. (now Admiral) Mayo, the then commandant at Mare Island, ordered the yard inventoried and appraised. In addition to determining the value of the plant to be nearly $12,000,000, the inventory proved it to be one of the best equipped yards in the country. It would be nothing but commonsense business judgment on the part of the Government to use its navy yards to their capacity before awarding contracts to private yards when the navy yards' bids and estimates are as low as those of private yards, and they usually are. Even though it should continue to be the policy of the Government to award the building of some of its ships to the private yards, navy-yard competition would keep the bids and contracts for construction in private yards down to a minimum that would permit of a reasonable profit, and in the time of war, or threatened war, the Government would not be at the mercy of the private shipbuilding yards.

Mr. KELLEY. It seems to me as though there has been testimony by some of the naval officers that the battleships of the largest class could not get to this navy yard?

Mr. CURRY. The Mare Island Navy Yard?

Mr. KELLEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. CURRY. I will come to that. There is not a ship in the Navy that can not get to the Mare Island Navy Yard on high tide.

Of course, to make navy-yard competition effective at such times it would be necessary for the Government to own and operate an armorplate plant with an output capacity sufficient to manufacture at least one-half of the armor plate necessary for the Government's use.

Also, the construction and operation of a powder works by the Navy Department would, I believe, be a profitable investment for the Government. If the Government owned its own powder plant, even though it did not manufacture all of the powder used by the Navy, it would be in a position to secure better contracts with private concerns than it does now.

Mr. BATHRICK. The Government now owns a powder plant; are you aware of that?

Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATHRICK. You mean one on the Pacific coast?

Mr. CURRY. I do not care where it is located, on the Pacific coast or here; we don't want it located at Mare Island. It is too dangerous. The present powder plant has not capacity sufficient to have a material influence on the supply of powder to the Army and Navy.

Mr. BROWNING. The Secretary of the Navy has recommended that the capacity of the powder plant be increased so that the Government plant can manufacture all the powder?

Mr. CURRY. I think it should be done, and that the Government could manufacture the powder cheaper than it can buy it from private concerns and of as good if not better quality.

I recognize the fact that there is always opposition to the Government doing its own work. This opposition not only comes from some of the business interests affected, but also from others in and out of public life who are conscientiously and on principle opposed to the Government engaging in any business enterprise. Until recently strenuous opposition by the press and people was made to the construction of Government boats in the Government navy yards. The agitation for such construction was started by the people of Vallejo. While they were engaged in persuading Congress to build a portion of the new ships in Government yards in 1900, Admiral Bowles appeared before the Naval Committee of both Houses and gave expert testimony that it would take a year longer and cost $1,000,000 more to build a battleship in a public than in a private yard. His advice was not taken, however, and he resigned from the Navy. When the experiment of building a battleship at a navy yard resulted from that fight it was found that, notwithstanding the decrease in the estimate of the private yard that constructed the sister ship arising from the knowledge that a similar ship was to be built in a public yard, it took a lot of artificial charges and expert bookkeeping manipulation to prevent the Government-built ship from being the cheaper of the two, while in the matter of speed in construction, the Connecticut made the pace for the Louisiana, the 32598-14- -60

former being built at the Brooklyn Navy Yard and the latter at Newport News; and since that time ships have been delivered to the Government within a very much less time from the date of contract than ever before, and the Government ships are built at more reasonable cost in private yards on account of navy-yard competition.

The CHAIRMAN. May I call your attention to a matter there? I asked the Secretary of the Navy to submit to us an itemized statement of the cost of construction of one of each kind of ships recommended, and the statement you will find in the hearings of the Secretary. There were two battleships, eight torpedo-boat destroyers, and three submarines recommended. If they are built under the eight-hour law by contract it is estimated that they will cost $43.930,652, and if they are built in navy yards it is estimated that they will cost $50,333,652, or $6,500,000 more. Those are the cold facts. Mr. CURRY. May I call your attention to the fact that that is an estimate?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir; I know it is an estimate.

Mr. CURRY. The right way to find out whether they can be built in Government yards as cheaply as in private yards is to let the Government yards submit bids. The last bids submitted by the Mare Island Navy Yard on a ship were on one proposition cheaper and another a little higher than the private yards. Every contract which the Mare Island Navy Yard has received she has gotten in competi tion with private yards, and every time she has been awarded a bid she has bid under the private yards and under the public yards, and she has always constructed or built the ship or article on which she has bid within the appropriation. There has never been any after proposition of a deficiency. All we want out there is an opportunity to bid. If we do not bid as cheaply as private yards, then give the contract to the private yard.

The CHAIRMAN. As a matter of fact, I can not understand why it is, now that all Government work done in private yards must be under the eight-hour law and that the Government yards are under the eight-hour law, that the outside contract price would be $43,930,652 and the Government price $50,333,652, both of them working under the eight-hour law. That is something I can not understand. Of course, I realize that we have holidays and things of that kind, but I can not figure that difference, and yet those are the cold facts that come to us.

Speaking about the Mare Island Navy Yard, I want to call your attention to the fact that several years ago we authorized a collier built at the Mare Island Navy Yard.

Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And then some duplicate colliers were bought. We purchased the colliers at $888,000. We fixed the limit of cost at $1,000,000 for the navy yard at Mare Island, and they reported that they could not build the collier for that amount; and then we raised it to $1,200,000 and added that the overhead charges should not be included. We had to do that before the Mare Island Navy Yard could build it. The overhead charges were three or four hundred thousand dollars in addition to the $1,200,000. We purchased a collier by private contract for $888,000.

Mr. BUTLER. About $500,000 less?

The CHAIRMAN. Something more than that.

Mr. CURRY. That was before the eight-hour law went into effect on public work in private yards? The overhead charges are more in public than in private yards. A system could be inaugurated by which they might be cut down to some extent.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEPHENS. Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that the Mare Island Navy Yard built one Government vessel in recent years, in the last few years, for a little less money than the private yard offered to build it?

The CHAIRMAN. I so understand.

Mr. STEPHENS. And they have built another one for just a little

more.

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary told me the other day that the Mare Island Navy Yard was doing work cheaper than any other navy yard, and that there was no longer an necessity for a differential of 5 or 8 per cent between the cost of construction on the Atlantic and Pacific coasts.

Mr. CURRY. Notwithstanding the fact that the steel had to be taken around the Horn at a considerable expense. Of course, when the Panama Canal is completed, why there will not be so much reason for a differential. As a matter of fact, there is not a differential now.

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary says that they are building cheaper than on the Atlantic coast now.

Mr. CURRY. I do not want to make any comparisons, but we are building cheaper than on the Atlantic coast, not only in the public yards, but every contract we get at the Mare Island Navy Yard is in competition with private yards.

Mr. TALBOTT. How do you a account for that? The wages are the same?

Mr. CURRY. The climate of Mare Island is such that a man can work to his utmost capacity all the year.

Mr. TALBOTT. You think that they really do more work?

Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir; they certainly do more work inside the eight hours on account of the climatic conditions.

Mr. LEE. I would like to ask you a question. Do you remember what the bids were on the supply ship authorized last year between Mare Island and Boston?

Mr. CURRY. No, sir. That is a matter of record which you very likely have before this committee.

The CHAIRMAN. The bid of the Boston yard was lower. Mr. LEE. Lower than the bid of the Mare Island yard? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. The bid of the Philadelphia yard was cheaper on one ship and the Boston yard on the other.

Mr. LEE. We do some work on the Atlantic coast pretty cheap. The CHAIRMAN. There is this matter. Of course you understand that an estimate submitted by a navy yard is not a bid, it is simply an estimate; and if they do not do it within their estimate there is no recourse or obligation on them; we just have to appropriate more money.

Mr. CURRY. The estimate has to be lower than the bid or they do not get it, and Mare Island never asks for a deficiency.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir; but after they get it, it is a question whether they can carry out their estimated figure.