Senator DECONCINI. Senator Pryor, thank you for that strong, strong recommendation of Mr. Arnold.

We will now hear from Senator Mack of Florida.

STATEMENT OF CONNIE MACK, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF FLORIDA

Senator MACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, let me thank you for holding this hearing. Many may be wondering what a Florida Senator is doing here. You have heard Democrat and Republican; you have heard Arkansas and Texas. But what in the world does Florida have to do with this nomination?

The interesting thing is that Buzz Arnold and I are cousins. As Senator Bumpers indicated a moment ago, our grandfather, Morris Sheppard served in the U.S. Senate and was the dean of the U.S. Senate when he died in 1941. When I have the occasion to go by the office of the Senate Democratic whip, I have the opportunity to see my grandfather's picture hanging in the office. So I have a very special reason to be here to recommend my cousin, Buzz Arnold to this committee.

Frankly, Buzz and I did not meet until I became involved in politics. We knew about each other but didn't have the opportunity to meet until we were introduced by Buzz's brother and my cousin, Richard Arnold, who currently sits on the eighth circuit court.

I strongly urge and recommend Buzz's confirmation. He is an outstanding scholar, has a distinguished career and a clear commitment to the law.

Again, I just appreciate the opportunity to come by and say a few words on his behalf. As you can imagine, this is a unique and yet very special moment for me to have an opportunity to introduce my cousin to the committee.

I thank the Chair.

Senator DECONCINI. Thank you, Senator Mack.

Representative Hammerschmidt, we are very pleased to have you

here.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN PAUL HAMMERSCHMIDT, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS Mr. HAMMERSCHMIDT. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Senator Thurmond. It is a distinct pleasure for me to join my colleagues and friends, Senator Bumpers and Senator Pryor and Congressman Ray Thornton, to support the nomination to the distinguished members of this committee of Judge Morris "Buzz" Arnold, a U.S. district judge, a fellow Arkansan and a close personal friend, who, of course, has been nominated by President Bush to fill a vacancy on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit. While recognizing the committee has carefully reviewed Judge Arnold's credentials and most of the things about his life have already been said here, I would like to just reiterate a few of the highlights of his distinguished career.

He holds a bachelor of science degree in electrical engineering and a bachelor of law from the University of Arkansas where he was editor-in-chief of the Law Review. He also has a master's and a doctorate in law from Harvard University, where he won the covet

ed Frank Knox Memorial Fellow Award to study at the University of London. Judge Arnold has also taught law at several prominent universities and was dean of Indiana University's Bloomington School of Law immediately prior to being appointed to the Federal bench, where he has served with great distinction.

I will mention again, as the others have, that he comes from a very distinguished family of Arkansas lawyers, his grandfather having founded a well-known law firm in Texarkana, and his brother Richard now serves as chief judge of the eighth circuit. Also, his maternal grandfather was a US. Senator from Texas, and you just heard from his first cousin, one of your colleagues, Connie Mack of Florida.

Again, I appreciate this opportunity, Mr. Chairman and Senator Thurmond, to support the nomination of Judge Arnold to this distinguished committee.

Thank you very much.

Senator DECONCINI. Representative Hammerschmidt, thank you very much.

We will now hear from Representative Thornton.

STATEMENT OF HON. RAY THORNTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

Mr. THORNTON. Mr. Chairman, Senator Thurmond, it is a privilege to be here before this distinguished panel to recommend Judge Morris Arnold for confirmation to the circuit court of appeals.

Judge Arnold was a constituent of mine in the 1970's when I represented the Fourth Congressional District in Washington, and I have had the privilege over the years of getting to know him well. He is truly an outstanding intellect, but he combines with that a sense of justice which is rare in today's world. And adding to that sense of justice, he brings a concern for individuals upon which our system of government is grounded.

I think that his appointment and confirmation to the circuit court of appeals will put that circuit court in shape as one of the best appellate courts in our Nation. He will join there his brother, Richard Arnold, with whom I have had a long history of friendship and respect. And my enthusiasm for his confirmation is complete, sir. He is a man of great intellect, of great character, wisdom, and fairness, and will do credit to our Federal judiciary.

Senator DECONCINI. Thank you, Representative. Thank you very much for joining us here.

We will now take the nomination of Mr. Arnold, if he would please come forward.

Mr. Arnold, would you please raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give the committee is the truth, so help you God?

Judge ARNOLD. I do.

Senator DECONCINI. Please be seated, and any introductory remarks you care to make, Mr. Arnold. You have heard so much from your friends and colleagues here, I don't know what you add. But you have an opportunity to do so if you would like.

could

TESTIMONY OF MORRIS S. ARNOLD, FORT SMITH, AR, TO BE U.S. CIRCUIT JUDGE FOR THE EIGHTH CIRCUIT

Judge ARNOLD. I wonder if I might introduce some guests I have, Mr. Chairman.

Senator DECONCINI. I wish you would, sir.

Judge ARNOLD. I have my distinguished brother, Richard S. Arnold, chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit; my aunt, Dr. Lucille Keyes, now of Washington; and my friends, Phil and Bessie Anderson, George and Judy Proctor, and Judge Bob Faulkner, who have come along with me as well today. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Senator DECONCINI. Do you have any other statement you care to make?

Judge ARNOLD. I do not. Thank you.

Senator DECONCINI. Mr. Arnold, I think we will get to the questions now. You have an outstanding career behind you, a great future ahead of you. The bar has recommended you well qualified. Your representatives here speak highly of you, and I know you have discussed at some length with the committee your membership in certain clubs that discriminate or at least allegedly discriminate based on race, religion, and gender. And I know that you have answered a multitude of questions, and in your questionnaire, you state that you currently are a member of the Country Club of Little Rock, AR.

It is my understanding-and please correct me if I am wrongthat this club, although it has women, Asians, and Jewish members, has never had an African-American member. Can you give us some background on the club, when you joined it and prior to joining it, and did you inquire and did you know that it did not take African-Americans? And when you joined the club or at any time shortly thereafter, when did you find out regarding this, and what actions have you taken, if any?

Judge ARNOLD. Thank you, Senator. When I joined the Country Club of Little Rock in 1988, I knew, as you said, that it had Asian, Jewish, and, of course, women members but had no black members. I think it is not accurate that they have a record of discriminating against black persons. If that had been the case, I would not have joined the club.

It is accurate that they have never had a black American, a black African-American member, but none had ever applied for membership. And my reading of the current social arrangement in Little Rock, AR, and the environs is that there would be no difficulty whatever in the admission of a black person if such a person should apply to the club. So I joined the club knowing those things. Since I joined the club knowing those things, I have made an effort to recruit black members to the club, and, in fact, an effort of which I was a part has recently succeeded in having a black gentleman sponsored for membership. His application has been received as an application and approved as an application, and he is presently involved in the process of becoming a member. I predict that this effort will succeed.

Senator DECONCINI. When you say you "predict," I realize you don't run the club, but what is going on now? Is there a qualified

member pending before the admissions committee, before the board of directors? Is it necessary to change the rules or the bylaws of the club?

Judge ARNOLD. Oh, no. There is no racially relevant bylaw. There is no bylaw that excludes persons on the basis of race. And, in fact, when I joined the club, I got a written assurance to that effect and also that there has never been a policy or practice of excluding black persons from membership.

Senator DECONCINI. How many are pending now for membership?

Judge ARNOLD. Black Americans?

Senator DECONCINI. Yes.

Judge ARNOLD. One.

Senator DECONCINI. One?

Judge ARNOLD. Yes, sir.

Senator DECONCINI. And when do you think they will make a determination on that application?

Judge ARNOLD. I think that is a difficult thing to predict. I would think that within a year or perhaps less. It usually takes quite a while to get into the club. In fact, I think it took me 6 or 7 years, but I hope that this doesn't happen to this gentleman.

Senator DECONCINI. Is that based on not having memberships available?

Judge ARNOLD. That is correct.

Senator DECONCINI. Is that what takes so long?

Judge ARNOLD. The procedure from this point, as I understand it, is that a screening committee will report back to the board and then the gentleman's name will be posted for members' comments. After a 30-day posting period, the board will vote on the application, and then if, as I very much hope and expect, the application is successful, he will be placed on a waiting list.

Senator DECONCINI. So none of that has happened yet?

Judge ARNOLD. It has not. The screening committee currently has him under consideration.

I would like to say, Senator, if I may that I took an active part in this process and wrote several letters and called several people and talked to numerous influential members of the Country Club of Little Rock to assure that this application was, in fact, accepted. And I am trying at the moment to make sure that the application is being speedily processed.

Senator DECONCINI. Mr. Arnold, the newspapers, which are not, indeed, accurate often, they have made reports and characterized and actually used the words "segregated" and "discriminatory" relating to this club. What is your reaction to those?

Judge ARNOLD. I think those characterizations are inaccurate for the reasons that I have given. Moreover, it is certainly not segregated in this sense: There have been numerous occasions on which black guests have been entertained at the club throughout the entire facility.

Senator DECONCINI. Judge, if this is going to take maybe 6 years, maybe 2 years, some period of time that is certainly not in the immediate future, foreseeable future even, maybe, what kind of a message do you think it delivers to the public when our circuit court judges remain even though they support membership of

black Americans in the club and yet there are none? Are you concerned about that?

Judge ARNOLD. I am concerned about it, and if it takes an unreasonable amount of time, I will resign from the club. I think at the moment I am clearly in compliance with the Senate's policy of August 2, 1990, because I am making bona fide and continuing efforts to have this gentleman admitted to the club.

Senator DECONCINI. Do you think the club would make any special considerations regarding this member to try to find a balance within its membership and perhaps authorize an additional membership? Is that under consideration?

Judge ARNOLD. I am urging them to do that, Mr. Chairman, but I don't know that I could truthfully tell you whether that would happen or not. I just don't know. I consider it personally a matter of some urgency, but

Senator DECONCINI. I do, too, Judge. I am sorry, in a way, that these questions or issues have become as prominent as they are. I have always felt that they are important. But they really have become prominent, and I think in light of today's race relations and the issues on the front page, it is very important for judges to understand and recognize that and also to take demonstrative steps. You appear to have done that, but if, in fact, we are talking about a long wait here, it seems to me that confirming a judge in such a position, having them continue to sit on a court, certainly poses an image problem, not as to the ability of the judge but the fairness of what our judicial system is.

That is just one Senator's opinion. I am not sure that is the collective opinion of this committee even.

Turning to some other clubs that you belong to, the Racquet Club of Philadelphia, the Union League of Philadelphia, the Athenaeum Club of London, and the Noon Civics Club of Fort Smith, AR, it is my understanding-and please correct me, Mr. Arnoldthat during your membership in these organizations, women, either by express prohibitions or by customs, were not permitted as members of those clubs.

How long were you a member of those clubs? I think that is in the record, and you don't have to be explicit right now. And when did you first realize that women were not admitted to any of these organizations?

Judge ARNOLD. All but the Noon Civics Club I was a member of from about 1977 to 1980; that is, the clubs in Philadelphia. I was aware at that time that women were not admitted, but I voted in each instance to change the bylaws. The bylaws have been successfully changed in those clubs to admit women, and that has been 10 or 15 years ago that that has happened.

Senator DECONCINI. Did you play a role in that other than voting?

Judge ARNOLD. I did not because I was not a particularly prominent person, was not a member of any committee, had no particular influence. I did talk to some of the people that I knew who were members, and

Senator DECONCINI. So all of those clubs for the last 10 years have accepted women?

Judge ARNOLD. At least, yes, sir.