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budget without advance notice. The city and county council go crazy when you walk in demanding another $250,000.

So, I would suggest a firm schedule of funding over a period of years with a decreasing scale which is preestablished.

The one serendipity which I think results from the career criminal program is that it forces prosecutors to take a look at their manage ment processes and look at their office organization. Through this selfexamination and through the keeping of records, these offices are enriched. It is not enough to keep records of what you are doing in the career criminal program. You have to keep records on your whole office so that you can compare that with the career criminal cases in order to determine whether any impact has been made.

I have found in my own office that the installation of this program has a bootstrap effect. A prosecutor who is put into the career criminal program is given more money. He is given a higher status because he has been singled out as an experienced and qualified prosecutor to provide the best possible prosecution. And he may use more demonstrative evidence and use a little different technique in the working he will do with the jury. This is observed by the other prosecutors in the office. I find it to be very helpful. It has been a factor which I believe has raised the standard of prosecution in my jurisdiction across the board. I believe that is all I have to say at this time. Senator BIDEN. Thank you very much.

With regard to the funding aspect, let me say this. I concur with you that there is a need for a firm and preestablished funding schedule. My only argument is that we should establish it at the outset that we are not going to permanently fund it. I think we are at a time where we really should make reelected officials stop this charade and put up or shut up. To put it bluntly, that is what I think. I do not know any elected official in either political party-and I am up for re-election also-who is not talking about cutting taxes or not talking about eliminating programs or major changes in the property tax structure. I think we should follow through on that. I think if we are going to do it, then let's go ahead and do it. The proposition 13 is a good old thing. I think that is wonderful. It puts pressure on everybody. When Governor Brown comes to us asking for money, then I will remind him of proposition 13.

If you decide that is what you want to do, that is wonderful. Go ahead and do it. But do not ask me to make up any of that money because I have my own proposition 13 that I am dealing with right here. I want to go out to show the taxpayers that I am cutting their taxes. I want to get off the whirlwind. I sat in the county council before I came here. I was one of those guys that the county officers came before and I found it very interesting. We would sit there and someone would say, "Well, how much is that going to cost?" And someone would say, "I think it is about $800.000." Then someone else would say, "Oh, no, it is not going to cost that much." The reply would be "Oh, no, no, I apologize about the small print-that is not real money, that is Federal money. Let's not consider that in our budget." That really disturbs me as you can tell from these hearings. Somehow we in the editorial sense are going to level with the folks. But I agree fully with one thing. If the Federal Government makes a commitment, you should know what that commitment is, you should know the length and duration of that commitment, and you should know how much that is going to be.

Inasmuch as I am the author of what they call the Federal Spending Control Act or sunset legislation, that flies in the face of indefinite funding. Some States had this type of thing before but it had not been done at the Federal level.

I guess all of you know that I am lecturing now. I cannot pass up that opportunity. That is part of the senatorial prerogative, I guess. Ι However, I guess you are aware that three-fourths of the Federal budget is untouchable. That much belongs to long-term commitments such as the defense procurement, social security, and so on. So, when we are told to cut spending, that is fine; $500 billion is the budget; only about $100 billion is touchable.

If we cut half of all the programs we can touch, which is even more outrageous than has been done in the States, then look at what you have cut. You have barely balanced the budget. We have not cut taxes. We have balanced the budget.

We get into these things. We are so anxious to please you. We really are. We used to be, anyway.

I am not anymore. But we are so anxious to please you because when the conference of mayors come, they say the same thing that the conference of county officials say and the same things that Governors say. They threaten that if we do not please them, they will be back home telling the folks. And we sit here and forget that you have even less respect than we do in an editorial sense. The polls show that the folks do not like Senators and Congressmen but they have less regard for the county councilmen. Yet, we believe that we should be worried about what you will say to the folks back home. I have decided to take the other tack.

Anyway, I hope I am making my point clear. Assuming that I were to be reelected, I am chairman of this committee. As long as I am chairman of this committee, I will keep the commitment. I will be certainly trying to shift the responsibility or else make an honest judgment that we are going to take it over and do it. Let's not say that we are really not in it and that we are only doing it for a little while. We know full well that when we do it, it is forever.

It is like the CETA programs and job programs. You have all been through that one. People hire workers for programs which are funded by us, even though they are told at the outset that it is temporary, and when the time comes, they say they do not know how they can tell all of those people that they are out of work. They say they do not know how they can go to the taxpayers now and tell them that. If you have any comments, I would be delighted to hear them now. Mr. SONNER. Most of the prosecutor's offices have received funds from another source for programs. That source is HEW. That provides more or less for continuous funding. One way that the local jurisdictions have been required to belong has been to not only hold out the carrot but also the stick; that is, there is some requirement that they either take the program or else they will lose a certain other kind of funding. I think there might be something in the new bill of the same nature that the staff could come up with that would penalize a State for the failure to undertake these kinds of programs. If they are going to get money for the prisons, then they would have to see to it that the people coming from those jurisdictions have criminal programs there. I think that might be very effective.

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