Senator O'MAHONEY. You say there has been no corresponding movement of population westward?

Mr. HARLAN. I mean relatively. The movement of cattle has been much larger.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do you have figures to show that ratio?

Mr. HARLAN. I do not have them with me; but you will find in a number of these States that are agricultural States the population has not increased in anything like the proportion the number of cattle has increased in the last 40 years.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You may proceed.

Mr. HARLAN. The next chart, exhibit 1c, shows what we have worked out to show the surplus and deficit areas of beef production. That is based on the assumption that the per-capita consumption of beef would be the same in all sections of the United States. On the basis of the number of cattle in the different States we have certain States that produce a good deal more beef than the population could consume, on the basis of that assumption, and another group of States where the production of cattle was greatly deficient.

Senator O'MAHONEY. This chart contains a diagram in each State. I notice that some of them are black and some of them are crosshatched. What do the cross-hatched circles mean?

Mr. HARLAN. Those are the States where there is a deficiency in beef production, to cover the consumption of beef, assuming a uniform consumption over the United States.

Senator O'MAHONEY. This map shows that in the New England States, the Atlantic States, the Southern States east of the Mississippi, Illinois, Michigan, Louisiana, and Arkansas, the consumption requirements of the population are far greater than the local State supply?

Mr. HARLAN. Yes, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Whereas in Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana more beef cattle are produced than the population can consume?

Mr. HARLAN. Most of that area, except on the Pacific coast; there are one or two States, Washington and California, that are importers of cattle and beef.

Senator O'MAHONEY. The size of the circle indicates the amount of the surplus or deficiency, as the case may be?

Mr. HARLAN. That is correct.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You may proceed.

Mr. HARLAN. The large chart, exhibit 2a, shows the location of swine on farms as shown by the census of 1930. You will notice a very black area here, which is the concentrated hog-producing area in the Corn Belt States. The big bulk of the commercial supply of hogs is produced in that area and processed in that area very largely, although a considerable number are shipped out for processing in other areas. There is no possibility of the population in that area consuming the hog products produced in the area.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You say that they are processed in that area? Mr. HARLAN. The big bulk are processed in that area, but there is a considerable interstate movement of hogs from that area into the New England and Middle Atlantic States, and to some extent into the Southern States, for processing.

Senator O'MAHONEY. By whom are they processed?

Mr. HARLAN. By packers of various kinds.

Senator O'MAHONEY. There are both large and small packers processing hogs?

Mr. HARLAN. Yes, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Have you any idea what the proportions are? What proportion of the hog production, for example, is processed by the so-called large packers?

Mr. HARLAN. I think in the case of hogs, speaking more particularly of the processing in plants that are inspected by the Bureau of Animal Industry, something like 50 percent is processed by the four large packers. When you come to cattle it runs up to about 75 percent, and for sheep and lambs it is about 85 percent.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do you have any statistics in the Department bearing on that question?

Mr. HARLAN. Yes, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Will you be good enough to get those up in the form of a table that may be inserted in the record as part of testimony?

Mr. HARLAN. Yes, sir.

(The table referred to is here set forth in full, as follows:)

your

Percentage of federally inspected livestock slaughtered by Big Four packers (Armour & Co., Swift & Co., Cudahy Packing Co., Wilson & Co.)

Percentage of Big Four packers of estimated total livestock slaughter in United

Source: Evidence of U. S. Department of Agriculture witnesses at hearing for modification of Packers' Consent Decree, 1930.

Senator KING. The large packers are in the congested area, are they not, indicated by the large black spots on the map?

Mr. HARLAN. I have another chart, exhibit 2b, that will show the location of the packing plants and distributing facilities.

Senator KING. Most of them are within the area where the corn is grown and where the greatest number of hogs is grown?

Mr. HARLAN. Yes, sir. That is, the large packing establishments.