because, on looking to the motion for the | the crown. Let gentlemen look at pro perty of every kind, let them look at the landed estates of the kingdom. Most of them had originally been grants of the crown; and would any man, because those estates were now productive of infinitely larger rents than could probably have been foreseen or imagined, venture to meddle with them, or think of assuming any part of those rents? Why should not a place, or the emoluments a man received under a grant of the crown, no matter whether by a duty, by fees, or by annuity, or in any other manner, be held as sacred a freehold, as a person's freehold estate? Mr. Fox declared, it was not his intention to have said any thing in that stage of the business; but it was impossible for him not to have taken notice of the matter he had just spoken to. The question was put, and agreed to. Mr. Pitt then moved, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill for the better regulating the office of treasurer of his Majesty's navy, and for transferring the custody of the cash for ordnance service, from the treasurer of the ordnance to the bank of England." This was also agreed to. address that passed upon the subject, he found the words, This House having reason to believe,' &c. Now, he could not imagine that the House would ever hold such language, or say it " had reason to believe," except when it meant to be perfectly serious. There were in the right hon. gentleman's speech many things suggested that were exceedingly proper; but if the right hon. gentleman meant to insinuate any blame upon the administration in which he had held a share, on the score of their not having turned their attention towards official regulations and reform, let the right hon. gentleman, recollect, that of the three years since 1782, when a change in the ministry took place, that administration, of which he had been a part, had been in office not quite one year, whereas the right hon. gentleman had been in administration two years out of the three; and nevertheless he was will ing to compare his one year against the right hon. gentleman's two, perfectly sure that it would be found that more essential reforms had been made by those with whom he had acted, than by the right hon. gentleman. In support of this asser- Mr. Pitt said, he had a motion to make, tion, Mr. Fox instanced the Bill for the that probably might not be equally well better regulation of the office of paymaster received. It was, he declared, a motion general; a Bill drawn in as masterly a that he had once before made, and which, manner, and that reflected as much credit, when modelled into the shape of a Bill, and threw as much solid glory on its had passed that House, but had been author, as any bill that ever had been thrown out by the other. The objection brought into that House. Mr. Fox said, formerly made to the Bill had been, that there was one matter that the right hon. government could carry its object, withgentleman had touched upon, to which he out passing any new law for the purpose. could not subscribe; and that was, the This, however, was more specious than idea that the increased profits of the au- true. Government could not do it withditor of the imprest, or any other patent out the institution of certain commissioners officer, arising from an unforeseen and to undertake the duty. The commissioners unexpected increase of the public expense of accounts had their attention wholly enand the public debt, were not to be deemed gaged by a different, and a very important so sacred, but that they ought to be con-object; and he saw no reason why the sidered as liable to a reform. He knew perfectly well, that it was looked upon as invidious, and was always unpopular, for any man to hold an opinion such as he held, and ever would avow, on that subject. This must ever be the case, where the public and an individual were the parties. The public looked to their own interest alone, and that naturally and unavoidably made them partial. But in spite of that partiality, in spite of the unpopularity that would attend such a declaration, he scrupled not to say, that he would on no account consent to touch any part of the emoluments derivable under a grant of object of the intended Bill might not be undertaken, and put into progress at the same time. He concluded with moving, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill for appointing commissioners to inquire into the fees, gratuities, perquisites, and emoluments, which are, or lately have been, received in the several public offices to be therein mentioned; to examine into any abuses which may exist in the same, and to report such observations as shall occur to them for the better conducting and managing the business transacted in the said offices." Mr. Fox said, it was very true, when the Bill under that title was before in parlia- | presented to the House relating to the ment, he had done what he very seldom trade of Great Britain and Ireland, were redid, forborne to deliver his sentiments ferred to the said committee. The House upon it. The reasons why he did so were having resolved itself into the committee, various. His attention was wholly en- Mr. Gilbert in the chair, the eleven Resogaged with watching the manœuvres of the lutions agreed to by the Irish parliament, right hon. gentleman, and those who were were read as follow: connected with him, elsewhere. Mr. Fox Resolved 1. "That it is highly imhinted, that he suspected that at that very portant to the general interest of the time the plan for his overthrow, by the British empire, that the trade between means of secret influence, was operating; Great Britain and Ireland be encouraged and having assigned that as a reason for and extended as much as possible; and for his suffering the Bill to go to the House that purpose, that the intercourse and coinof Lords, he said, the objection that was merce be finally settled and regulated on then most obvious to his mind in respect permanent and equitable principles for the to the Bill, was, that the executive govern-mutual benefit of both countries. ment was equal to the object of the motion of itself; but of that he should be a better judge when the Bill was upon their table. 2. "That towards carrying into full effect so desirable a settlement, it is fit and proper, that all articles, not the growth or manufacture of Great Britain, or IreThe Attorney General caught at Mr. land, should be imported into each kingFox's acknowledgment of his having suf- dom from the other, reciprocally, under fered the Bill to go to the Lords to be the same regulation, and at the same duthere thrown out. This, he said, was a ties, if subject to duties, to which they are fair confession on the part of the right liable when imported directly from the hon. gentleman, that the House of Lords place of their growth, product, or manumight be rendered useful, by being em-facture; and that all duties originally paid ployed to throw out such Bills as, for rea sons of conveniency, it might be thought advisable to suffer to pass the Commons. He shortly stated his reasons for being of opinion that such a Bill was necessary; and that government could not, unless parliament armed it with special powers for the purpose, prosecute such inquiries as the Bill went to the institution of. The Solicitor General said a few words in corroboration of this argument. He cited the case of an inquiry into the conduct and usages of the court of Chancery, that had been set on foot by administration in 1732; but which, for want of ministers having applied to parliament to be armed with the necessary powers, had not been brought to a conclusion till the year 1749. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. Debute in the Commons on the Commercial Intercourse between Great Britain and Ireland.] Feb. 22. Mr. Chancellor Pitt moved, That this House will, immediately, resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, to consider of so much of his Majesty's most gracious Speech to both Houses of Parliament, upon the 25th day of January last, as relates to the adjustment of the Commercial Intercourse between Great Britain and Ireland." This motion being agreed to, the various papers on importation into either country respectively, shall be fully drawn back on exportation to the other. 3. "That for the same purpose, it is proper that no prohibition should exist in either country, against the importation, use, or sale of any article, the growth, product, or manufacture of the other; and that the duty on the importation of every such article, if subject to duty, in either country, should be precisely the same in the one country as in the other, except where an addition may be necessary in either country, in consequence of an internal duty on any such article of its own consumption. 4. That in all cases where the duties on articles of the growth, product, or manufacture of either country, are different on the importation into the other, it would be expedient that they should be reduced in the kingdom where they are the highest, to the amount payable in the other, and that all such articles should be exportable from the kingdom into which they shall be imported, as free from duty as the similar commodities or home manufactures of the same kingdom. 5. "That for the same purpose it is also proper, that in all cases where either kingdom shall charge articles of its own consumption with an internal duty on the manufacture, or a duty on the ma duties paid over and above any duties paid thereon in Britain, should be regulated from time to time, in each kingdom, on such terms as may afford an effectual preference to the importation of similar articles of the growth, product, or manufacture of the other. terial, the same manufacture, when im- | ported from the other, may be charged with a farther duty on importation, to 9. "That it is expedient, for the general the same amount as the internal duty on benefit of the British empire, that the imthe manufacture, or to an amount ade-portation of articles from foreign states quate to countervail the duty on the material, and shall be entitled to such drawbacks or bounties on exportation, as may leave the same subject to no heavier burthen than the home-made manufacture; such farther duty to continue so long only as the internal consumption shall be charged with the duty or duties, to balance which it shall be imposed, or until the manufacture, coming from the other kingdom, shall be subjected there to an equal burthen, not drawn back or compensated on exportation. 6. "That in order to give permanency to the settlement now intended to be established, it is necessary, that no prohibition, or new or additional duties, should be hereafter imposed in either kingdom, on the importation of any article of the growth, product, or manufacture of the other, except such additional duties as may be requisite to balance duties on internal consumption, pursuant to the foregoing resolution. 7. "That for the same purpose it is necessary farther, that no prohibition, or new or additional duties, should be hereafter imposed in either kingdom, on the exportation of any article of native growth, product, or manufacture from thence to the other, except such as either kingdom may deem expedient, from time to time, upon corn, meal, malt, flour, and biscuits; and also except where there now exists any prohibition which is not reciprocal, or any duty which is not equal in both kingdoms, in every which case the prohibition may be made reciprocal, or the duties raised so as to make them equal. 8. " That for the same purpose it is necessary, that no bounties whatsoever should be paid, or payable, in either kingdom, on the exportation of any article to the other, except such as relate to corn, meal, malt, flour, and biscuits, and such as are in the nature of drawbacks or compensations for duties paid, and that no duty should be granted in this kingdom on the exportation of any article imported from the British plantations, or any manufacture made of such article, unless in cases where a similar bounty is payable in Britain, on exportation from thence, or where such bounty is merely in the nature of a drawback or compensation of, or for 10. "That it is essential to the commercial interests of this country to prevent, as much as possible, an accumulation of national debt, and therefore it is highly expedient that the annual revenues of this kingdom should be made equal to its annual expenses. 11. That for the better protection of trade, whatever sum the gross hereditary revenue of this kingdom (after deducting all drawbacks, repayments, or bounties, granted in the nature of drawbacks) shall produce, over and above the sum of 656,000l. in each year of peace, wherein the annual revenues shall be equal to the annual expenses, and in each year of war, without regard to such equality, should be appropriated towards the support of the naval force of the empire, in such manner as the parliament of this kingdom shall direct." As soon as the above Resolutions had been read, In a Mr. Chancellor Pitt rose, and opened the system of commercial intercourse between the two kingdoms. He said, he flattered himself he should be honoured with their indulgent attention, of which he should fully stand in need, while he endeavoured to state to them the important propositions on which he conceived an advantageous and honourable system of intercourse might be established between Great Britain and Ireland. business of such moment, he knew that it was equally unnecessary for him to desire the attention of gentlemen, as to intreat that they would enter into the consideration of the subject without prejudice, and with the earnestness which its political magnitude required. There was not a man in the House, of whatever party or description, however attached or connected, who would not agree that the settling of the commercial intercourse of the two countries, on a firm, liberal, and permanent basis, by which an end might for ever be put to jealousies and clamour; by which all future pretexts to discontent might be removed, and by which the surest foundations of future strength and opulence might be laid, was one of the greatest topics which could be agitated in parliament, and one of the most desirable objects that they could accomplish. They would meet with one disposition as to the end, however they might differ about the means; and he only prayed that gentlemen would enter into the discussion of the subject without prepossession from what they might have heard, and without giving ear to the insinuations which had been so industriously circulated through the metropolis, and distributed, perhaps, to every corner of the country. These insinuations applied to particular subjects of the discussion, and were founded on misconception of those great and necessary data in our relative situation, upon which, without bending our view to partial aspects, we must ultimately decide this great question. If gentlemen had adopted ideas from cases half stated, or from cases misrepresented by those who had made up their minds, without knowing whether the state of the question made it necessary that the line should be pursued which had been adopted, it would be more difficult for him to clear the way to the true consideration of the question than it otherwise would have been. It was incident to every proposition, that, until it should be fully exposed, those who might have the interest or inclination to raise clamour by partial statements of it, had the advantage in the conflict for a time: but when the whole could be fairly elucidated, truth would always, as it ought, have its prevalence over misrepresentation, and the delusion, though extensive, would be but momentary. With regard to the important question, he conceived it to be simply this: what ought to be the principles on which the relative commercial interests of the two kingdoms should be settled in the system of intercourse to be established between them? In answering this question he had no difficulty in saying, that the system should be founded on principles of expediency and justice; and he was confident in saying, that, in the mode in which the King's ministers had pursued the object, they had paid regard to those principles. It had been a subject of insinuation that the steps which they had taken were not conducive to the ultimate success of the measure, and that they had embraced notions which were hostile in every conception to the end in view. He would not It was his wish that those examinations should be full and minute; that time should be given them for the discussion; and that the whole should be fairly and fully investigated before they came to any determination. He did this in the confidence that, upon such mature consideration, they would find the general propositions to be founded on good sense and substantial policy. He was sensible that the smaller parts might require much curious and minute investigation; they would stand in need of correction, and perhaps of change. He trusted that he should have the assistance of all the wisdom and information of the committee on those points; and he assured them that full time, and the utmost information, should be given for the discussion. In such a business, such a determination was essential; for it was of the greatest and most decisive importance to both kingdoms, since the end and object was no less than to establish a system that should be permanent and irrevocable. He should confine himself to general principles in the exposition of the business this day. The motion with which he should conclude would fully explain the principles; it had a reference to the commercial regulations which had been read at the table, and which the Houses of Lords and Commons of Ireland had declared to be the basis of what they should consider as a proper and effectual system of intercourse. His motion did not tend to any direct point; but it led their attention to the general prospect of the scheme, accompanied with a provision which he conceived to be essential to the whole. In treating this important question, he would beg leave to recall their attention to what had been, and what was the relative situation of the two countries. They would recollect that, from the Revolution, to a period within the memory of every man who heard him, indeed, until these very few years, the system had been that of debarring Ireland from the enjoyment cited, and suggestions published in Dublin and elsewhere, of putting duties on our produce and manufactures, under the name of protecting duties. Having thus far relaxed from the system which had been maintained since the Revolution,-having abandoned the com long persevered, and having so wisely and justly put them into a state in which they might cultivate and profit from the gifts of nature, having secured to them the advantages of their arts and industry,-it was to be observed that we had abolished one system, and had established another : but we had left the intercourse between the two countries exactly where it was. There were, he said, but two possible systems for countries situated in relation to one another like Britain and Ireland. The one, of having the smaller completely subservient, and subordinate to the greater and use of her own resources; to make the kingdom completely subservient to the interests and opulence of this country, without suffering her to share in the bounties of nature, in the industry of her citizens, or making them contribute to the general interests and strength of the empire. This system of cruel and abo-mercial subserviency in which we had so minable restraint had however been exploded. It was at once harsh and unjust, and it was as impolitic as it was oppressive; for, however necessary it might be to the partial benefit of districts in Britain, it promoted not the real prosperity and strength of the empire. That which had been the system, counteracted the kindness of Providence, and suspended the industry and enterprise of man. Ireland was put under such restraint, that she was shut out from every species of commerce:she was restrained from sending the produce of her own soil to foreign markets, and all correspondence with the colonies of Britain was prohibited to her, so that she could not derive their commodities but through the medium of Britain. This was the system which had prevailed, and this was the state of thraldom in which that country had been kept ever since the Re-munity of benefits, and a system of equavolution. Some relaxations of the system, indeed, took place at an early period of the present century. Somewhat more of the restrictive laws were abated in the reign of George 2; but it was not until a time nearer to our own day, and indeed within the last seven years, that the system had been completely reversed. It was not to be expected but that when Ireland, by the more enlarged sentiments of the present age, had acquired an independent legislature, she would instantly export her produce and manufactures to all the markets of the world. She did so, and this was not all. England, without any compact or bargain, generously admitted her to a share in her colonies. She gave her liberty to import directly, and to re-export to all the world, except to Britain, the produce of her colonies. Thus much was done some years ago; but to this moment no change had taken place in the intercourse between Great Britain and Ireland themselves. Some trivial points, indeed, had been changed; but no considerable change had taken place in our manufactures exported to Ireland, or in theirs imported to England. That, therefore, which had been done, was still viewed by the people of Ireland as insufficient; and clamours were ex to make the one, as it were, an instrument of advantage, and to make all her efforts operate in favour, and conduce merely to the interest of the other. This system we had tried in respect to Ireland. The other was a participation and com lity and fairness, which, without tending to aggrandize the one or depress the other, should seek the aggregate interests of the empire. Such a situation of commercial equality, in which there was to be a community of benefits, demanded also a community of burthens; and it was this situation in which he was anxious to place the two countries. It was on that general basis that he was solicitous of moving the proposition which he held in his hand, to complete a system which had been left unfinished and defective. Under these circumstances, to discover the best means of uniting the two countries by the firmest and most indissoluble bands, ministers had, during the recess, employed themselves in inquiries by which they might be able to meet parliament with a rational and well-founded system. That they might form the outline of such propositions, from the mutual ideas of both countries, and that they might join in the principles on which the basis of the intercourse was to be laid, they thought it their duty not to come into the parliament of Britain until they knew what additions to the relaxations which were lately made, would be likely to give entire satisfaction to the people of Ireland; what commercial regulations they would think essential |