of the House upon those motions as their | records of the East India Company, which declaration, that they thought the subject were replete with every degree of inforunfit to be agitated, standing up in their mation that the subject stood in need of, places with loose and unauthenticated would admit. He spoke of the bonds that pamphlets in their hands, and saying re- had been assigned, and said they were peatedly, that they assumed the facts a species of funds as negociable as the stated in such publications as authentic, French actions, or our stocks. He disand therefore called upon their lordships cussed the matter of Mr. Hastings having to agree to resolutions turning altogether proposed to pay off the whole of the debt upon the facts so assumed. He asked of 1777, in solido, upon the creditors conwith what reservation of respect for that senting to abandon 25 per cent. of all their House did any noble lord presume to adopt demands, and accounted for that proposia mode of proceeding so contrary to order? tion not having been accepted, by declarHaving put this question, he reprobated ing that the reason was merely because the pitifulness of the triumph of getting Mr. Hastings had made it; for the fact the papers into print, which that House was, Mr. Hastings had not proposed it comhad refused to have put upon their table, pulsorily, but as a matter that was feasible, and in severe terms reprehended their provided the creditors consented, which publication; declaring, that whoever of care was taken they should not do, lord the East India directors had handed them Macartney having written back from Mato Mr. Debrett, had been guilty of scan- dras to Bengal his reasons why the plan dalous treachery to that body of men with could not be carried into execution, and whom he acted, to his constituents whose the very first of those reasons was a deaffairs he had been called upon to direct, claration that the creditors would not conand to the public at large. He asked sent. He observed, that lord Loughbowhat was the aim of bringing forward rough had complained of the mode presuch questions as those that had been scribed by the board of control for objecmoved that day? Why would not the tions to be made to the debts of 1777, and noble lords proceed to crimination im- had appealed to men of his profession, mediately? It would be much more whether the ordinary course of proceeding manly to come forward with a charge, if in courts of justice, was not directly the any they meant to suggest, than thus by reverse? To which question, he, for one, insinuation and side-wind motions throw must answer, he never knew that the ordiout hints, that tended to affect men's nary course of proceeding was the recharacters, and from which it was impos- verse. The usual mode of detecting a sible for any men, however unimpeach- fraud, or collusion, being for the party able their conduct, to defend themselves. accusing to make a charge and establish But even were such a motion as the pre- it by proof; not for a man to prove himsent acceded to, what could be done upon self innocent, before he was accused. it? Was it with a view to ground a mo- The learned lord forgot, that the bond tion for an Address to his Majesty to was a presumptive proof of the validity of remove the present board of control? a debt. His lordship said farther, that Did not the noble lords know, that they, was the first time he had ever heard, that as a House of Lords, could do nothing the debt of 1777 was contracted by the in such a business, and if they were to vote nabob upon motives of policy, and with a an address to the crown, the crown had view to secure himself in possession of his not the power to comply with it. The throne and dominions, by making it the only possible parliamentary proceeding, interest of his creditors that he should if any noble lords thought the present hold both the one and the other. He had board of control unworthy of their trusts, ever understood the fact to be, that the was to move, to bring in a bill for their nabob was extremely distressed at the removal, and if so, that House would time the loan was made, and that he paid scarcely be thought the fit place for such the produce of it into the treasury of the a motion, His lordship went pretty much East India Company at Madras, by way at large into the consideration of the of re-imbursing the Company in part of nature of the several debts, stating the the heavy expenses they had been at to difference between each, and declaring conquer back from the French his domithat they had been as carefully investi- nions, and re-instate him on his throne. gated by the board of control previous to their having sent out the orders, as the

The question for adjournment having been withdrawn, the main question was จ

put, when their lordships divided: Con- not very proud of the burthens which we tents, 24; Non Contents, 73.

Debates in the Commons on the Newfoundland Trade Bill.] Feb. 2. Mr. Pitt informed the House, that a difficulty had arisen with regard to the supplying of the island of Newfoundland with bread, flour, and live stock, to which it was a doubt whether the Intercourse Bill with the United States extended; that it had therefore been thought advisable to provide for it by a short Bill, rather than by the insertion of any clause in the old Bill, for the continuance of which for a longer period, he had so lately moved. He then moved, "That this House will immediately resolve itself into a committee, to consider of the trade between the ports of the United States of America, and his Majesty's subjects in the island of Newfoundland." The Speaker left the chair, and Mr. Gilbert went to the table, and after a short time reported that the committee had come to a resolution, which was as follows: "That leave be given to bring in a Bill, for confining, for a time to be limited, the trade between the ports of the United States of America, and his Majesty's subjects in the island of Newfoundland, to bread, flour, and live stock, to be imported in none but British-built ships, actually belonging to British subjects," &c. The same was ordered to be brought in.

still found ourselves able to bear; but he was indeed most seriously solicitous that none of those many resources which we still retained, might, by the temerity of the legislature, or the imprudence of our government, be impaired or debilitated. It was not now the season, and he did not incline to expatiate on our commercial advantages, or the manner of improving them. It was his great object that none of them might be neglected or impeded in that operation which was naturally to be expected from them, provided they were not otherwise obstructed. This was the point to which all his observations were directed, and which he hoped would influence the House in whatever decision they should agree. The face of the measure he deemed hostile in a singular degree, to that spirit of liberality which he presumed ought to predominate in all commercial regulations whatever; the leading idea held forth by the title he had mentioned, was a distinction in trade. He was not, however, certain to what extent the principle might be carried; it appeared to him to be so generally and loosely worded, that it might be carried to the most dangerous extremities. He then stated the present situation Great Britain stood in with regard to other countries as a commercial state, and how her regulations of trade were calculated to affect those states with whom she stood in this predicament. Feb. 7. Mr. Eden having ordered the The disquisition now turned on a multiclerk to read the title of the Bill, moved tude of legal obstructions, in which the for by Mr. Pitt on the 2nd instant, said, hon. gentleman called on his learned that there was one prejudice which, in the friends on the treasury-bench to contest entry of this business, he was exceedingly the doctrines, which he submitted to their anxious to remove. He did trust they attention and consideration. He knew would give him credit for meeting this no law, for his part, which authorized any subject as much divested of every degree such restriction as seemed intended by of party zeal or passion as it was possible. this Bill. He wished the authors of it had The idea originated in his own conceptions sufficiently considered the consequences of the matter. These he had communi- of passing it into a law. He recurred cated to some gentlemen much conver- again and again to the tenderness and cirsant in our mercantile laws, who had all cumspection which ought now especially uniformly agreed with him in the prin- to be exercised in all our attentions to ciple, to which he would now attract the commerce. The United States could not attention of the legislature. And no time, help themselves, or by any means, within in his apprehension, required the House his knowledge, accommodate their trade to proceed with greater reserve, modera- to such impositions as this Bill held forth. tion, and attention to the system of laws He was not sensible that any emergency in being than the present. When he con- impelled us to such a measure; it was of sidered the situation in which we were too much importance to be hurried over placed, the increasing extent of our fi- slightly; he trusted gentlemen would renances, and all the infinite variety of de- volve it in their minds, and prepare themmands which referred to our public ex-selves for giving the subject an effectual penditure, his heart did not swell, he was discussion.

The hon. gentleman brought the following quotation from Montesquieu, in confirmation of his commercial ideas : "When a foreign commerce with a colony is prohibited, it is not lawful to trade in those seas, except in such cases as are excepted by treaty. Nations who are, with respect to the globe, what individuals are in a state, like these, are governed by the laws of nature, and by particular laws of their own making. One nation may resign to another the sea as well as the land. The Carthaginians forbade the Romans to sail beyond certain limits, as the Greeks had obliged the king of Persia to keep as far distant from the sea-coast as a horse could gallop. The great distance of our colonies is not an inconvenience that affects their safety; for if the mother country on whom they depend for their defence is remote, no less remote are those nations who rival the mother country, and by whom they may be afraid of being conquered."

dry and unacceptable such disquisitions often are to gentlemen, especially on the first hearing; but he trusted he should be able to follow the measure, step by step, and expose the absurdity of it in such a manner as to obtain the suffrage of the House; and as party had no concern in the issue, he was not without hopes of support in a matter thus replete with the prosperity or decline of the British commerce. Such a question in that assembly was always of much real importance; but the circumstances of the time rendered it peculiarly so at present. He believed that at this moment there were no less than five different treaties of a commercial tendency between this country and others depending. So unprecedented and rash had the United States of America been in the management of their commerce, that it was impossible for them to do any thing which, by proper attention on our part, might not be rendered advantageous to us.

Thus far he had quoted an elegant and Having stated his reasons for thinking masterly foreign writer on this important that the present system of our trade and and intricate subject; but a book but navigation laws, however inapplicable to very lately published by Mr. Chalmers, abstracted theories of free commerce, was had very largely and liberally discussed become essential to this country from her the point. He trusted, every gentleman peculiar circumstances; and that it was who wished to understand the matter in this system alone which could enable an debate, had got the valuable tract he re- island like Great Britain to maintain a ferred to, and he would therefore decline flourishing trade and landed opulence, any quotation; but he was happy to agree together with public credit and naval with that very able and intelligent author strength, under the pressure of accumuin most of his leading principles, and the lated taxes, to the amount of 50s. a head commercial concerns of this country. for every individual in the community; The new aspect which the independence and having also shewn this system, so far of America had given to the Western as it has hitherto monopolized not only continent, made every disquisition of this the navigation, but the supply of the kind peculiarly delicate and interesting; British colonies, was conformable to the he was, however, so well founded in his law of nations, to the usage of every general idea, that he could wish it to un-known empire in the world, to various dergo the strictest investigation. The application of what he had with great sincerity suggested on these topics to the Bill before the House, or which the House had given leave to bring in, was obvious, and ought to procure attention. The contents of the Bill he knew not; it was the title to which his reasoning and objections chiefly went; this he was desirous to alter, and render consonant to such a regulation as should comprehend the case in question; he was sufficiently aware how

"Opinions on interesting subjects of commercial law, and commercial policy, arising from American independence." By George Chalmers, Esq. [VOL. XXV.]

existing treaties, and, lastly, to the municipal laws; he proceeded to say, that he might perhaps have rested his objections to the present Bill on the two great grounds of expediency and of analogy.

I might," said he, "fairly have inferred, that if a new empire arises upon the face of the globe, the question shall not be in what quarter of the world such a phænomenon appears; there is no reason in common sense why the locality should make any difference, or give a claim to any distinction. If a new empire arises, that empire must conform to what has been the practice respecting all other empires: if that practice is clearly known, you are not to inquire whether the new [T]

state is situated in the Baltic or the Me- | Russian, nor Stettin as a Prussian port; diterranean, in the Atlantic or the Pacific for the mere change of dominion makes Ocean. Such a state, wherever found, no variation cognizable by the officers of must take the disadvantages incident to revenue, or the courts of justice. dominion, together with the imaginary But lest it should be wished to raise sweets of her independence. By the act By the act distinctions against precedents, in support of her independence, she is become foreign of a point which seemed self-evident, he as to Great Britain, and foreign produce would refer to the Act of the 23rd of his cannot go to British colonies without present Majesty: that Act dispenses with being previously landed in this kingdom." certain instruments on the arrival of vessels Perhaps he might be told that there had from the New States in British ports; but once existed an intercourse between the similar instruments were at the same time British colonies and the French and Spa- requisite, by subsisting acts, on the arrival nish islands to this he would answer, of vessels from the New States in the ports that it was a commerce contrary to positive of the colonies; and the instruments last treaties existing then, and at this day in mentioned were left unrepealed. The force; and it had never been authorized whole subject at this time had undergone by any positive law. It was true that very full discussion, and the legislature had there were acts of parliament to charge a said, 'We will repeal a part of the restricduty on the imported produce of foreign tions; but we will also leave a part of the islands; but there were no acts to autho- restrictions untouched.' Could there, rize the clearances outwards to those under such circumstances, remain a doubt islands, or the cockets of entry and im- of the construction and intentions of the portation. That trade had always been law? The same Act had been re-enacted both irregular and clandestine; but if it five times under two parliaments and two had been otherwise, it would have amount- administrations; and yet the House was ed only to a limited communication be- now to be told that the proceedings of tween two neighbouring colonies, for the both parliaments had been erroneous, and mutual advantage of the two parent states, that the colonies, by changing their dowhich was a consideration differing totally minion, were entitled to be in a better from a direct trade between a colony and situation as to this country, than all the an independent state. In observing this, foreign powers of Europe; in short, that he must again repeat, that the present Bill the provisional articles of peace had superassumed for its principle, that an unli- seded the commercial acts of parliament. mited trade in the British-built ships be- To such doctrine, he felt decidedly adverse tween the New States and the remaining in every view of justice, expediency, and colonies had legally subsisted ever since law. He seriously regretted that it had the peace. Here, then, he would contract been brought forward. Those who the whole argument, and would rest it on espoused it with most warmth, surely must one point: he would assert with confidence, have some doubts respecting it; and yet That no country, by changing its sove- they also must foresee, that it would bring reign, can acquire thereby new rights in upon them a choice of difficulties. They the dominions of that sovereign; or, to had now forced on this country the nestate that proposition more specifically, he cessity of regulating, by positive law, what would say, That the laws of this king- might have been settled with better addom, regulating the trade and intercourse vantage by treaty; for it was evident, that between two British colonies, remain in parliament must forthwith proceed withforce and effect, notwithstanding the sub-out delay to establish a system of restricsequent separation and acknowledged in- tions between the New States and the dependency of one of those colonies, until Islands, and Canada and Nova Scotia. the same are altered by parliament.' If He moved, "That the order of the 2nd of proofs of this were wanting, he would refer February be discharged." to Dunkirk, from which port French wines cannot at this day be brought; because, when the Act of Navigation passed, Dunkirk had not yet been sold, and has never since been acknowledged as French in any act of parliament. In like manner, and at this hour, by an unreasonable strictness, Riga is not considered as a

Mr. Jenkinson defended the title of the Bill, and stated the origin of it to have been this: last year there was a very great scarcity of provisions in Newfoundland; it happened that some vessels arrived from America, laden with provisions. The governor of Newfoundland, a very worthy officer, was puzzled how to act; his own