[1150 try, by desultory observations, and it was deserved the more particular attention of necessary to sit down before it, and assail the House, because the report had been it by regular approaches. It was fortunate, so artfully managed, as in many points to however; to observe, that notwithstanding appear to support the Chancellor of the all the skill employed by the noble and Exchequer in a contrary assertion. Next, literary engineer, his mode of defence on he regarded himself as unanswerably juspaper was open to the same objection tified in concluding that the data themwhich had been urged against his other selves were founded upon a supposition of fortifications; that if his adversary got events so improbable and desperate, that I possession of one of his posts, it became the existence of the case contained in strength against him, and the means of them, carried with it not the imminent subduing the whole line of his argument. danger of Portsmouth and Plymouth only, Mr. Sheridan said, that the points but the actual conquest of the island. which he should conceive he had dis- Upon this occasion, he did not think much tinctly established from the authentic detail of argument was necessary, after he document before the House, notwith-had established, that the case alluded to, tstanding the mutilated state in which it in the words often recurred to-" under appeared, were:-first, that not one word, the circumstance of the data," was litehint, or suggestion on the part of the rally this, "The absence of the whole Bri: naval officers tending to give any appro- tish fleet for the space of three months, bation, either directly or by implication, while an army of 30 or 40,000 men was to the scheme of fortification then in de- ready on the enemy's coast to invade this bate, was to be found in that paper; but country, that enemy to choose their point that, on the contrary, from the manner in of landing, to land and encamp with heavy which a reference was made to the mi- artillery, and every necessary for a siege, nutes of the naval officers, of which the while no force in Great Britain could be result was withholden, a strong presump- collected in less than two months to option might be grounded, wholly indepen- pose them." By no means could he addent of the information which the House mit as a fact that, even taking it for had received from members of that Board, granted that the enemy should decide to that those minutes did contain a con- assault no part but Portsmouth and Plydemnation of the plan. He did not ex-mouth, he should, with most polite hostipect to hear it argued that the result of those minutes could not be communicated, because they were mixed with dangerous matters of intelligence; they had shewn a sufficient degree of ingenuity in the manner of having extracted them from the report; and it would prove extraordinary indeed, if wherever the judgment was unfavourable, it should have been so blended and complicated with matter of detail and I dangerous discussion, that no chemical process in the Ordnance laboratory could possibly separate them; while, on the contrary, every approving opinion, like a light subtile oily fluid, floated at the top at once, and the clumsiest clerk was capable of presenting it to the House, pure and untinged by a single particle of the argument or information upon which it was produced. In the second place, he should contend, that the opinion given by the land officers in favour of the plan, was hypothetical and conditional; and that they had unanimously and invariably refused to lend their authority to, or to make themselves responsible for, the data or suppositions upon which that opinion was to be maintained. This circumstance

lity, scorn to strike a blow at the heart of the empire, but in the courtly spirit of a French duellist, aim only to wound in the sword-arm; yet even under this idea, must he deny that these only objects provided for, could be said to be effectually secured. For, first, it was not made out that the enemy might not either land or march to the eastward of Plymouth, where no defence was pretended; and secondly, the whole question turning upon a supposition of our being inferior at sea, in that case a presumption of the safe return of the inferior and its beating the superior fleet, was the sole resource for the relief of the besieged dock-yards, the defence of which was expressly stated in the report to be calculated only as against the force, and for the time, expressed in the data; so that the enemy having it obviously in his power, while master of the sea, to recruit his own army, as well as to keep the other exposed parts of this kingdom in check and alarm, and thereby to prevent the possibility of our assembling and uniting a force sufficient to raise the siege, it followed, that if either the enemy's army exceeded the number sup

posed, or that the time was prolonged beyond the period calculated, the whole of this effectual security vanished under their own reasoning, and we should merely have prepared a strong hold in the country for our foe, a hold which the circumstances under which he was supposed to make the attack, would enable him for ever to re

tain.

and not a party. But this was not their conduct; they could defend their situation upon system and principle; however reduced their ranks, they were more desirous to prove they were in the right than to increase their numbers. He was confident, however, that the gentlemen to whom he might be supposed to allude, were too liberal to set a less value upon their support that day because it was unaccompanied by adulation, or any endeavour to canvass for their future connexion. Let us upon this night be firmly embodied in a cause we equally approve. Let us do this great service to the country; then separate, and seek opposing camps. Let them return with the double triumph, if they will, of having conferred an important benefit on their constituents and the nation, and a real obligation on the Government. Let them have the credit with the country of having defeated the minister's measure, and the merit with his friends, of having rescued him from a perilous dilemma. Leave us only the silent satisfaction, that, without envying the reputation of those whom we were content to follow, without being piqued by insinuations against our motives, and without debating whether the minister might not be served by our success, we gave an earnest and zealous assistance in defeating a measure, which, under the specious pretence of securing our coasts, strikes at the root of our great national defence, and at the heart of the constitu tion itself.

Mr. Sheridan now proceeding to his remarks concerning the distinction which had been taken relative to the different persons who were supposed to form the opposition to the present plan, said, that he had heard the old insinuations of party views resorted to by those who defended the original motion; and some gentlemen who most strenuously opposed it, had, how ever, in a kind of language which he could not avoid taking notice of, disavowed any party feeling or connexion with the party in question. With respect to himself, he was happy that the business had worn so little the appearance of party as it had; and although he had moved for and obtained the report, which had been so much discussed, and upon which so much had turned, he had proved himself ready and anxious to resign the business into the hands of the respectable gentleman who had upon that day so ably brought it forward. He could never, for one, submit to the imputation, that the party with whom he had the honour to act were supporting or opposing any measure upon motives less just, less fair, or less honourable than those which influenced any other description of gentlemen in that House. Mr. Fox remarked, that his hon. friend The present question could not even be had gone so fully into the whole of his pretended to be pursued with party policy, subject, and had argued it so closely, that as there was not a person in the House it was unnecessary for him to take up much who could avoid confessing that party of the time of the House. He would purposes would be better gratified by en- therefore speak only to a few points, so tangling the right hon. gentleman in the personal to himself, that the House, as he pursuit of this obnoxious and unpopular conceived, would think it highly necessary scheme but the gentleman who had for him to take some notice of them. The upon that day led the opposition to it, had right hon. gentleman (Mr. Pitt) had been so wished to take such a lead, because pretty strongly insinuated that the system it appeared among the most effectual of fortification now in contemplation, was means of warding off an injury from the a part of that identical system which he country; otherwise to be enlisting under (Mr. Fox) had, when in office, proposed leaders for the day, or courting the tem- to the House. This was not by any means porary assistance of any description of a correct representation of the fact; for, gentlemen, would, in his opinion, prove a in truth, he never had proposed any plan conduct as impolitic as undignified. On of fortification whatever; but in the ordthe other hand, to recede from any impor-nance estimates of the year 1783, a specific tant contest, because gentlemen uncon. nected with them were likely to have the credit of the event, would deservedly cast on them the reproach of being a faction,

:

sum was asked for the purpose of going on with Fort Monkton, and another small fort which had been begun; yet, a demur arising upon the subject, he had agreed in

to come to some determination with respect to the subject, and not continue to proceed upon so unsettled a system. He should vote for the amendment.

Mr. Pitt remarked, that, notwithstanding his having trespassed, during such a length of time, upon the patience of the House, he flattered himself that, even at a very advanced hour, they would not refuse their wonted indulgence, especially after they had heard so much, that ren

Mr. Dundas answered, that it was with a view to meet the objections started by the noble lord, that the system of fortifications then under consideration had beendered a reply from him indispensably neproposed. It was by laying down a permanent system that an end would be put to the expensive practice which had prevailed. He contended, that a mode of defence which would give security to our dock-yards, and preserve the vital sources of our navy from the danger of being destroyed during any future war, was an object of so much importance, that 700,000l. or even a million, would prove a cheap price to pay for the purchase. The question was, would the House go to that expense for the attainment of an object so immediately connected with the future existence of our navy, or would they avoid it? To such a question he should not imagine that any man in his senses, who was not misled by prejudice, could besitate a moment to reply in the affirmative. He relied a good deal on the opinion of the board of officers, who, he must contend, had delivered it as their unanimous opinion, not only that such a system of fortification was absolutely necessary, but that it was the particular plan which could be erected at the smallest expense, and would require the fewest soldiers to man.

Mr. Windham said, that Mr. Dundas had argued the question fairly, and was the only advocate in favour of the proposed system, who had put it upon its right ground. The question came shortly to this: a plan of fortification was proposed, and it must cost 700,000l. Would the House, or would they not agree to pay that price for it? Mr. Windham having so stated the matter in issue between the two sides of the House, added, that they would act unwisely and imprudently, were they to accept the bargain upon the terms proposed. Fortifications in general were insecure and dangerous means of defence, and of all others the most unfit for us to adopt. "Spem pro pretio emere, ridiculum est," was an established maxim, but "Detrimentum et periculum pro pretio emere, ridiculum est," was still more undeniable; and therefore he should vote for the amendment, on the ground, that to pay 700,000/. for fortifications, would be to lavish so much of the public money, for the purchase of alarm and danger.

cessary. Upon this occasion, he must beg leave to contend, that the question was clearly a naval question; and that it had been made to appear, in his mind, unanswerably, that if the plan were adopted, a smaller army establishment would become necessary than had hitherto been kept up. An hon. gentleman (Mr. Walwyn) as a new member, and evidently not much used to public speaking, was indeed excusable for having mentioned the report which he had heard; but that report was ill founded; he was, however, greatly hurt at finding such a report hazarded within those walls; and he had been still more astonished, when he heard something fall from a right hon. colonel (Barré), whose infirmity he was extremely concerned to understand had forced him to withdraw, which looked like an insinuation darkly wrapped up under the words, "that his conscience had been surprised," and which seemed to have been directly aimed at the same end. He had only to say, that he considered both the one and the other, if the meaning which he had assumed really belonged to them, as founded in the blackest malignity, and as highly injurious to his character. He repeated his assurances, that the proposed plan was intimately connected with the future welfare and prosperity of the navy; and that unless some such plan were soon adopted, the country and that House would have to lament, and to blame themselves for rejecting a measure so much to the national advantage, and on which the preservation of their liberties, and of the constitution itself, depended.

At seven in the morning, the House divided on the motion, that the words "proposed to be left out," stand part of the question.

YEAS

NOES

Tellers.

And the members being equal, Mr. Speaker said, that àlthough he should have wished to have stated at large his

reasons for the opinion he had formed on the question, yet, after so long a debate, he had too much respect for the House to take up any more of their time; and therefore declared himself with the noes. So it passed in the negative.

proving the fisheries in the eastern seas of the kingdom. This desirable object the Report before you proposes to obtain, by transferring from foreigners to our own countrymen, from Dutchmen to Englishmen, the valuable fishery for turbot. It is in our own seas that all these fish are taken-it is to our own markets that almost all of them are brought yet they are taken by Dutchmen; they are brought to market by Dutchmen; all the profits arising from the sale of the fish, all the advantages resulting from the encouragement of seamen and the maintenance of naval strength, all the benefits both public and private which the fishery affords, are at this time monopolized by the Dutch. Those advantages the report upon your

Mr. Fox said, that the motions which his right hon. friend (Mr. Burke) was to have made on the preceding day, for papers relative to Mr. Hastings, could not be made before Wednesday; on which day they probably would be made by his right hon. friend, who was then prevented by illness from attending his duty in that House; a fortunate circumstance for the right hon. the Speaker, as it had given him an opportunity, which he otherwise would not have had, of gaining immortal honour, by his casting vote upon the sub-table proposes to transfer to the people of ject of fortifications.

Debate in the Commons on the Encouragement of the British Turbot Fishery.] March 2. The House having resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Report from the Committee of the State of the British Fisheries, Mr. M. A. Taylor in the chair,

this kingdom. The principle of the system is, that our countrymen should be preferred to foreigners; that English fishermen are entitled to some advantage in our English market; and that it is more to the interest of Britain to encourage her own fisherics, to reward the industry of her own people, to increase the number of her own seamen, and to add to her own naval strength, than it can be to encourage the fisheries, or reward the industry, or promote the naval strength of Holland, a country which is always a rival, and sometimes an enemy.

Before I proceed to move the resolutions which I shall have the honour of sub

Mr. Beaufoy rose and said :-Sir; As I had the honour of presenting to the House the Report for the consideration of which they have now resolved themselves into a committee, I must intreat their indulgence for a few moments, while I briefly describe the plan which the resolutions contained in the Report are meant to recom-mitting to the committee, perhaps, Sir, it mend. In bringing forward this business, I have pleasure in contemplating the intimate connexion it has with the naval interests of this kingdom; and I have also pleasure in recollecting, that it is a business to which the members of the House have repeatedly shown themselves favourably disposed; for in the two last sessions, as well as in the present, they appointed a committee expressly for the purpose of ascertaining the most effectual means of extending the fisheries of Great Britain. It was in consequence of the inquiries of the committee of the last year, that I was enabled to propose to the House a Bill, which they did me the honour to approve, for removing the restraints which unwise and improvident laws had imposed on the progress of the fisheries on the northern and western coasts of the island. It is in consequence of the inquiries of the committee of the present year, that I am now enabled to propose what may be considered as the second part of the system-a plan for im

may not be unnecessary, nor altogether uninteresting, briefly to describe the nature of the fishery to which these resolutions relate. The turbot fishery begins about the latter end of March, at which time the Dutch fishermen assemble on that part of the Dutch coast which lies a few leagues to the south of Scheveling; from thence as the warm weather approaches, the fish, in order to avoid the heats, retire farther and farther north. During the months of April and May they continue on the bank, which is generally called the Broad Fourteens, and which runs nearly parallel to the coast of Holland from the latitude of Scheveling to a latitude considerably to the north of the Texel. Early in June, the fish remove from the Broad Fourteens, to the banks that surround the small island of Hylingland which lies westward of Hamburgh, off the river Elbe, but at a considerable distance at sea: there the fishery continues to the middle of the month of