Page images
PDF
EPUB

--and then everie man shewed what favor they bare towards me, and how glad they would be of an agreement.

But as I strained to have licence of them in plaine words to speake my minde, so me thought they granted mee it, but vix or agrè. Well at the last I was content to take it for licenced, and so began to talke.

To M. Fecknams arguments of the manifold affirmation where no deniall was, I answered, where is a multitude of affirmations in Scripture, and where is one affirmation, all is one concerning the truth of the matter: for that anie one of the evangelists spake inspired by the Holy Ghost, was as true as that which is spoken of them all. It is as true that John sayth of Christ, I am the dore of the sheepe, as if all had said it. For it is not in Scripture as in witnes of men, where the number is credited more then one, because it is uncertaine of whose spirit he dooth speake. And where M. Fecknam spake of so manie, affirming without anie negation, &c. Sir, saide I, all they doe affirme the thing which they meant. Now if yee take their words, to leave their meaning, then doe they affirme what ye take, but not what they meant. Sir, said I, if in talke with you, I should so utter my minde in words, that ye by the same do, and may plainely perceive my meaning, and could, if ye would be captious, cavill at my words, and writhe them to another sense, I would think ye were no gentle companion to talke with; except yee would take my words as ye did perceive that I did meane.

Mary, quoth M. secretary, we should else doe you plain injury and wrong.

M. Fecknam perceiving whereunto my talke went, why, quoth hee, what circumstances can yee shewe me that should move to thinke of anie other sense, then as the words plainely say; Hoc est corpus meum, quod pro vobis tradetur? This is my bodie which shall be betraied for you.

Sir, said I, even the next sentence that followeth; Hoc facite in meam commemorationem, Do this in my remembrance. And also by what reason, yee say the bread is turned into Christs carnall bodie; by the same I may say, that it is turned into his mysticall bodie. For as that saith of it, Hoc est corpus quod pro cobis tradetur; so Paule which spake by Christs spirit saith, We being many are all but one bread, and one bodie, in as much as we are partakers of one bread.

Here he calleth one bread, one loafe, sayd M. secretarie.

Yea, sayd I, one loafe, one bread, all is one with me.

But what say ye, quoth master secretary, of the universalitie, antiquitie, and unitie, that master Fecknam did speak of?

I ensure you, said I, I think them matters weightie, and to be considered well. As for unitie, the truth is, before God, I do beleeve it and embrace it, so it be with veritie, and joyned to our head Christ, and such one as Paul speaketh of, saying, One faith, one God, one baptisme. And for antiquity I am also perswaded to bee true that Irenæus saith, Quod primum cerum, That is first is true. In our religion Christs faith was first truely taught by Christ himselfe, by his apostles, and by many good men that from the beginning did succeede next unto them: and for this controversie of the sacrament, I am perswaded, that those old writers which wrot before the controversie and the usurping of the sea of Rome, do all agree, if they be well understanded, in this truth.

I am glad to heare, said master secretarie, that ye doe so well esteeme the doctors of the church.

Now as for universalitie, it may have two meanings: one to understand that to be universal which from the beginning in all ages hath beene allowed; another, to understand universalitie for the multitude of our age or of any other singu

lar age.

No, no, saith master secretary, these three do alwaies agree, and where there is one, there is all the rest; and heere hee and I changed many words. And finally, to bee short, in this matter we did not agree.

There was none, quoth maister Fecknam, before Berengarius, Wickliffe, and Hus, and now in our dayes Carolostadius, and Oecolampadius. And Carolostadius sayth, Christ pointed to his owne body and not to the sacrament, and said, Hoc est corpus meum. And Melancthon writeth to one Micronius (Miconius said I) these or like words; Nullam satis gravem rationem invenire possum, propter quam à fide majorum in hac materia dissentiam. I can find no grounded reason to cause me to dissent from the beliefe of our foreelders.

Thus when he had spoken at length with manie other words mo: Sir, said I, it is certaine that other before these have written of this matter; not by the waie onely, and obiter, as do for the most all the old writers, but even ex professo, and their whole bookes intreat of it alone, as Bertram.

Bertram, said the secretary, what man was he? and who was he', and how do ye know? &c. with many questions.

Sir, quoth I, I have read his booke. He proponeth the same which is now in controversie, and answereth so directly that no man may doubt but that hee affirmeth, that the substance of bread remaineth still in the sacrament; and he wrote unto Carolus Magnus.

Mary, quoth hee, marke, for there is a matter. He wrote, quoth he, ad Henricum, and not ad Carolum, for no authour maketh any such mention of Bertramus.

Yes, quoth I, Trithemius in catalogo illustrium scriptorum, speaketh of him. Trithemius was but of late time': but he speaketh, quoth I, of them that were of antiquitie. Here, after much talke of Bertram, What authors have ye, quoth M. secretarie, to make of the sacrament a figure?

Sir, quoth I, ye know (I thinke) that Tertullian in plaine words speaketh thus, Hoc est corpus meum, id est, figura corporis mei, this is my bodie, that is to say, a figure of my body. And Gelasius sayth plainely, that substantia panis manet, the substance of bread remaineth. And Origine sayth likewise, Quod sanctificatur secundum materiam, ingreditur stomachum et vadit in secessum, that which is sanctified, as touching the matter or substance, passeth away in the draught. This when I had englished, M. secretary sayd to mee, you know very well as any man, &c. and here, if I would, I might have been set in a foolish paradise of his commendation of my learning, and quòd essem vir multæ lectionis, a man

' Who was he?] See vol. ii. note, p. 666.

* Ad Henricum.] That is, to Henry the eighth: meaning to insinuate, that this book of Bertram's, which bore too strongly against the Romish corruptions in the doctrine of the eucharist, to admit easily of any fair and direct answer, was a modern forgery of the protestants. Steven Gardiner, with less confidence, in his book against Cranmer, endeavours to cast a like suspicion upon the credit of that writer; "one Bertram" (says he): "if the booke set forth in hys name be his." See Cranmer's Answer to Gardiner, p. 6. edit. 1580. It is but right, however, to remark, that other Roman catholics have not betraid the weakness of their arguments by this impolitic hardihood; but have spoken of Bertram's book in terms much more creditable to their own character, and their cause. Mabillon, for instance, expressly states his having discovered a manuscript of it eight hundred years old. Cave's Histor. Literar., vol. ii. p. 28.

• Of late time.] John of Trittenheim or Trithemius finished his work in 1494.

[blocks in formation]

of much reading. But this I would not take at his hand. He set me not up so high, but I brought myselfe as low againe: and here was much adoe.

As for Melancthon (quoth I) whom M. Fecknam spake of, I marvell that yee will alledge him, for we are more nie an agreement heere in England, then the opinion of Melancthon to you: for in this point we all agree here, that there is in the sacrament but one materiall substance: and Melancthon as I weene, sayth there are two.

Ye say truth, quoth M. secretary: Melancthons opinion is so. But I pray you, ye have heard that the sacrament was in olde time so reverenced, that many were then forbidden to bee present at the ministration thereof, catechumeni, quoth hee, and many moe.

Truth sir, quoth I, there were some called audientes, some pænitentes, some catechumeni, and some energumeni, which were commanded to depart.

Now, quoth he, and how can ye then make but a figure or a signe of the sacrament, as that book doth which is set forth in my lord of Canturburies name1; I wisse, ye can tell who made it, did not ye make it? and here was much murmuring of the rest, as though they would have given me the glorie of the writing of that booke, which yet was sayde of some there, to containe most hainous heresie that ever was.

1 Lord of Canturburies name.] Fox, in the margin, calls this "the booke of Catechisme;" by which must be meant, either the catechism, commonly called the Catechism of king Edward, or the Short Instruction into Christian Religion. But the book in question could be neither of these. The former was never published in Cranmer's name; and, as to the latter, there could be no dispute, who its author was; for it was avowedly a translation, from the Latin of Justus Jonas. But, the contents too, if any one were disposed to examine the two books for that purpose, would establish the same conclusion. And a similar investigation would show, that the book intended by secretary Bourn was, either " a Defence of the True and Catholic Doctrine of the Sacrament," A.D. 1550, or else (which also contains the preceding), his "Answer unto a crafty and sophisticall Cavillation," &c., a. D. 1551, and 1580. In the process against Cranmer, preserved in the archiepiscopal library at Lambeth (MS. no. 1136) of which more will be said under the life of that prelate, Robert Ward, master of arts, deposes, that he did not think Cranmer had learning sufficient to write the books on the eucharist, &c. which were put in evidence against him. "Ad septimum dicit, quod credit præfatum Thomam vix adeo eruditum, ut possit ipse, ejus proprio ingenio, hujus modi libros componere ; certo tamen scit ejus nomine et auctoritate eos circumferri."

Maister secretary, quoth I, that booke was made of a great learned man, and him which is able to do the like againe; as for me I ensure you (be not deceived in me) I was never able to do or write anie such like thing. He passeth mee no lesse, then the learned master his young scholler.

Now, here every man would have his saying, which I passe over, not much materiall for to tell. But sir, quoth I, me thinks it is not charitably done, to beare the people in hand that anie man doth so lightly esteeme the sacrament, as to make of it but a figure. For that (but) maketh it a bare figure without anie more profit, which that booke doth often denie, as appeareth to the reader most plainly.

Yes, quoth he, that they do.

Sir, no quoth I, of a truth: and as for me, I ensure you I make no lesse of the sacrament then thus: I say whosoever receiveth the sacrament, hee receiveth therewith either life or death.

No, quoth M. secretary, Scripture saith not so.

Sir, quoth I, although not in the same sound of words, yet it doth, in the same sense; and S. Augustine saith, in the sound of words also for Paul sayth, the bread which we breake, is it not the partaking or fellowship of the bodie of Christ? and S. Augustine, Manduca vitam, bibe vitam, eate life, drinke life.

:

Then said maister Pope, what can ye make of it when yee say, there is not the reall bodie of Christ? which I do beleeve, and I pray God I may never beleeve other. How can it bring (as yee say) either life or death, when Christs bodie is not there?

Syr, quoth I, when you heare Gods word truely preached, if ye doe beleeve it and abide in it, yee shall and do receive life withall: and if yee doe not beleeve it, it dooth bring unto you death and yet Christs bodie is still in heaven, and not carnall in every preachers mouth.

I pray you tell me quoth he, how can you answer to this, Quod pro vobis tradetur, which shall be given for you? Was the figure of Christs bodie given for us?

No sir, quoth I, but the verie bodie it selfe, whereof the sacrament is a sacramentall figure.

How say yee then, quoth he, to quod pro vobis tradetur, which shall be given for you?

2 Doth often denie.] See p. 4. 10. 34, &c. &c. &c.

« PreviousContinue »