1988. SUBSCRIBED and SWORN to before me this 16th day of May, Dianne Oltedahl Notary Public for the State of Montana (SEAL) My commission expires: 6-6-90 Senator MELCHER. Senator Domenici. Senator DOMENICI. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your asking that the remainder of the testimony be made a part of the record. I want to assure the witnesses that, from my standpoint, I have reviewed the situation and in due course, with Senator Melcher asking the leadership of this committee, we ought to be able to come up with something fair. And I just want you to know that even though we're not going to hear the rest of your testimony-Mr. ROBINSON. I appreciate it. Senator Domenici. I'm clearly of the opinion that we ought not continue this dispute when it seems to me to be rather easily resolved and that no one is going to be seriously damaged with the resolution that you are seeking. And I thank you very much for all the trouble you and your attorney have gone through to come to the committee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ROBINSON. I thank all of you for your consideration. And I will make the statement of my colleague, Senator Max Baucus, a part of the record prior to the statement of Mr. Galvin. Thank you both very much. Now our next witness will be Mr. James Parker, Assistant Director for Support Services, Bureau of Land Management, Department of the Interior, and we will consider S. 1461. Senator HECHT. May I make a statement, Mr. Chairman? STATEMENT OF HON. CHIC HECHT, U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA Senator HECHT. Mr. Chairman, I have a full statement which I am submitting for the record. However, I would like to clarify that this legislation, S. 1461, is designed solely to release a reverter in favor of the lands although it is drafted more broadly. The YMCA already owns the land which it acquired under the Recreation and Public Purposes Act. I felt that the broader wording of the bill would act as an insurance in the future that there is no cloud on the title held by the YMCA, but I would have no objections to alternative wording which would accomplish the same objective. Mr. Chairman, I go into great detail in my prepared statement which, in the essence of time and our future votes this morning, I will submit for the record. Senator DOMENICI. It will be made a part of the record. [The prepared statement of Senator Hecht follows:] STATEMENT OF SENATOR HECHT BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS, COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES MAY 20, 1988 Mr. Chairman, I thank you for scheduling this hearing on S. 1461, As you know, the bill, as drafted, would convey this land to the Las Vegas "Y." I would like to clarify that this legislation is really intended to release a reverter in favor of the land. The land has already been conveyed to the YMCA under the authority of the R&PPA. There is no need to convey it again. However, land conveyed under the Act which is not used for recreation and public purposes reverts back to the federal government. The Las Vegas "y" would like to sell a portion of the land and use the proceeds to retire part of its debt and build a branch facility in Henderson. I would argue that this sale will promote increased recreational opportunities for Southern Nevadans, is clearly in the public interest and therefore fulfills the spirit of the law. However, I recognize that the letter of the law also must be observed. This bill would exempt the land from reverting back to the federal government. While I favor the broader wording of the bill because I feel it will insure in the future that there is no cloud on the title held by the YMCA, I would have no objection to alternative wording which would accomplish the same objective. Having said that, I would like to persuade this Subcommittee that granting the YMCA clear title to the land, so it is free to sell a portion of the land, will serve the purpose for which the land was originally conveyed to the YMCA under the R & PPA. The objectives of the original 1969 transfer from the BLM was to enable the Las Vegas YMCA to expand its public services to the Henderson community. However, the YMCA's current debt of about $700,000 threatens its future, and prevents it from using all 40 acres for recreation opportunities and public services for the Henderson community. The community response to the YMCA's financial plight has been overwhelmingly encouraging and clearly demonstrates how much the community values the YMCA's services. In the last three years, businesses, individuals and local government have joined together in a tremendous show of support to erase three million dollars of a bank debt that had reached nearly $3.8 million! Clearly, the Southern Nevada community has done everything in its power to save the YMCA. If this legislation is passed, the YMCA will sell about 30 acres of the land and use the remaining 10 acres for a Henderson branch facility. The proceeds of the land sale will be used to retire the remaining debt, which will assure the solvency of the YMCA's existing operations, and to finance the building of the branch facility. Thus, the objectives of the original conveyance under the R & PPA will have finally been fulfilled. Currently, there is only one YMCA facility serving all of Southern Nevada, a community of over a half-million people. By contrast, the Reno community in Northern Nevada, with less than half the population, has three facilities. In 1987 alone, class enrollment increased 20%, and total membership reached almost 16,000. Further, the Henderson community is not proximate to the Las Vegas facility. To serve the Henderson community properly, and as intended by the original conveyance, expansion is necessary. This legislation has the full support of the City of Henderson and Clark County. I am sure that local government recognizes that if the Las Vegas YMCA had to curtail or eliminate its programs and services, they would be obliged to replace those services, which over the past three years totalled over $2.8 million. Again, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the members of the Subcommittee for scheduling this hearing. I urge my colleagues to look favorably on this legislation which is so important to the people of Southern Nevada. Senator DOMENICI. Would you like to summarize your testimony? Your statement will be made a part of the record. STATEMENT OF JAMES PARKER, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, SUPPORT SERVICES, BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, ON S. 1461 Mr. PARKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I'll be happy to do that. The administration must oppose enactment of S. 1461 because we believe it would result in a sizable Federal subsidy in excess of $1 million to the YMCA. The 40 acres of land described in the bill were conveyed to the YMCA in 1969 under the Recreation and Public Purposes Act at a cost of $2,525. That was done under two separate patents. Both patents contain the normal reversionary clause which we put in all R&PP actions. The current market value of the land is in excess of $1 million. The land has not been developed by the YMCA. We understand that the reason for the introduction of this bill, as Senator Hecht indicated, was to permit the YMCA, which has filed for bankruptcy, to sell the land and pay some of its debts as part of the bankruptcy proceedings. We believe that this is inappropriate under the Recreation and Public Purposes Act, and would set a very unwise precedent for the thousands of other R&PP patents that are out there. In other instances where there is no development, and apparently will be no development, the patentees normally reconvey the land to the United States. There are, if the Congress should decide to proceed with this bill, some concerns in the way the bill is drafted. There are two preexistent rights-of-way across the parcel of land. The bill makes no provision for protecting these valid existing rights. Also, there are some technical problems with the wording of the bill with regard to the conveyance. Since the land has already been patented, it is unclear exactly what is to be conveyed. Just the reversionary interest of the United States? There is also a question regarding the minerals and whether they are going to remain reserved to the United States. That would conclude my statement. [The prepared statement of Mr. Parker on S. 1461 follows:] |