it should ask itself, what injury or injustice it can inflict upon Scotland by conferring an essential benefit upon England? By the admission of my noble friend, the mover of the amendment, and of all who have spoken in support of it, we are now dealing, not with a fanciful and theoritical, but with a real, practical, and ascertained evil. Now, by giving representatives to those three great manufacturing districts the House will at once provide for the evil under which they are at present suffering, and which materially affect their interests, concerns, and pursuits. In giving the bill its support, the House will be giving a direct representation to manufacturing districts, possessing a vast mass of population, wealth, and industry, and having daily interests to support, and claims to urge in this House, and who, consequently, have a right to be represented here. And I will further say, after the decision recently come to by the House, on the case of East Retford, that the only course left for me, in order to guard myself against the risk of entailing any indefinite change or speculative alteration, in the frame of the House of Commons, or the manner in which it is now constituted.

I have ever been-I now am-I shall continue as much as ever-an enemy to what is called parliamentary reform on principle; that is, to any general reform in the formation of the House of Commons, which is founded upon the principle of theoretical improvement. Any such plan of reform, I am convinced, and all history, all experience, all knowledge of human nature and human passions, bears me out in the conviction, however it might, for a season or two, adopt itself safely to ordinary and quiet times, would upon the first great excitement of popular feeling (and such excitements are inevitible in every form of society) subvert the whole frame of the constitution, and substitute, for the security and protection of a well-regulated Government, either the evils of democracy or those of despotism; or

more probably the dreadful visitation of both those tyrannies, in their natural order of succession. Nothing, I am well aware, is so easy as to take to pieces and to hold up separately to trial and condemnation the different descriptions of franchise and modes of election, by the exercise of which the present House of Commons is created-nothing so hopeless, as to defend each separate part, when thus brought up to be arraigned abstractedly from the whole. I think it a waste of time, and perversion of common sense, to look at our constitution in this way. If, therefore, I am challenged to say, whether I am prepared to advocate this or that particular description of elective franchise, which prevails in this or that particular borough, I will only answer the question by saying, that I look to the whole as one aggregate that if the present frame be once taken to pieces, no man could put it together again, and that I do not believe that the wisdom of man-(always recollecting in old societies how that wisdom is controuled and swayed by passions, prejudices, and interest)-could create another and a new frame that would look as well, and last as long, as the present one.

On a late occasion, I stated to the House, that as an opponent to all wholesale reform-to all reform upon principle-I am very desirous to transfer the elective franchise from East Retford to Birmingham, as the means of justifying my defensive position against that class of reformers. My right honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, thought this would be a dangerous move, and he kindly advised me to make my stand in the hollow rotten swamp of East Retford, only masking the untenable weakness of that position by extending it to the lines of Bassetlaw. And, Sir, he had the further kindness, when he found I was not convinced by his good advice, to bring up all his well-trained and well-disciplined forces, to prevent my movement to Birmingham. In that measure he was suc

cessful, and thereby rendered the present motion of the noble lord necessary. But I am convinced that his success has only increased the danger against which he is anxious to guard himself. I am convinced that he would be more secure, if he could satisfy the just expectations of those three great districts, of which Birmingham, Manchester, and Leeds, may be considered the head quarters.

The question now before us is-whether greater danger would accrue to the constitution, and to the existence of a good feeling on the part of the people of this country towards the House of Commons, by giving the representative franchise to these extensive manufacturing districts, than by withholding it. Will any man, Sir, contend that the want of representatives, with whom they could be in daily communication, and who would effectually watch over and protect their important interests in the legislature, is not a great hardship upon the population of those districts? Surely the granting such a necessary privilege to them, could in no way endanger our liberties or our constitution! To say that the interests of those important districts are better attended to in Parliament, in consequence of their not having representatives in this House, is a paradox which I am sure no honourable gentleman is prepared to defend. My right honourable friend near me is opposed to the transference of the franchise to these three great townsthe capitals of their respective manufacturing districts,— until we shall have the same number of corrupt boroughs disfranchised. He says, that the district of Halifax is superior in amount of population to any of those towns; and he asks, why should not a call be made for a representative for Sheffield, upon the same principle as that upon which this motion is founded? But it should be recollected, that Leeds is the capital of the woollen manufacture, and therefore may be justly taken as the representative of that interest; that Sheffield, though with a large population,

and an extensive manufacture, would be fully represented by Birmingham, which is the head of all that manufacture; and that Manchester is, in a certain degree, justly regarded as the capital of the cotton manufacture. Thus, by giving the franchise to these three great towns, all those different interests would be represented in this House.

My right honourable friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, gave this House to understand, upon a former evening, that, on some future occasion, he may acquiesce in granting the franchise to these towns. Now, Sir, I contend, that if we are to give representatives to these manufacturing districts at any time, it should be done now. This is the occasion for giving them that privilege, if we are to give it to them at all. But I am afraid, Sir, that whatever this House may do, or hereafter be inclined to do, it will be disappointed in its efforts by an opposition in another place. I fully concur in the opinion expressed by a noble friend of mine, the late Foreign Secretary,* who, when a member of this House, said, that one of the greatest blots on this country, in the eyes of all intelligent and well-informed persons, was, that such an important class as the great manufacturing population should be almost entirely without representatives in Parliament. In like manner, the late Earl of Liverpool, when a bill was sent up from this House, transferring the elective franchise from Grampound to Leeds, stated, that it would be desirable that the words "Leeds and Yorkshire," should be omitted in the bill, and the selection of the place left to the prerogative of the Crown. And what did my noble friend add upon that occasion ? He said, that if it were left to the prerogative of the Crown to select the place, it would be understood that the franchise would be given to some large and populous town.

It is, Sir, upon such principles, that I support the noble lord's motion on this occasion. We ought not to The Earl of Dudley.

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allow technicalities to stand in the way of real practical improvements. The Government and the Legislature must keep pace with the spirit of the age. They should neither be behind it, nor before it. I do not think it safe for Government never to come down with any important measure of reform, until they are driven to do so by overwhelming majorities. My noble friend who has proposed the amendment is young, and he will live to see the day, when the representative franchise must be granted to the great manufacturing districts. I candidly confess I think that that time is fast approaching, and that, one day or other, his Majesty's Ministers will come down to this House to propose such a measure, as necessary for the safety and salvation of the country. I think there is little chance of seeing the elective franchise extended to these towns by the disfranchisement of rotten boroughs, by reason of the opposition to be encountered in another place; and I would recommend the noble lord, if he should obtain leave to bring in a bill, to provide in it, that a committee of this House shall be competent to decide the question in future; and that whenever it shall have sufficient evidence laid before it, that a borough has been guilty of corruption, it shall report the same to the House; that the subject shall then be referred to a second committee, as a committee of appeal, who shall again take all the facts of the case into consideration; and that, if that second committee should confirm the conviction made by the first, the disfranchisement of the borough shall forthwith take place, without rendering it necessary to submit our privileges or our rights to the judicature of any tribunal elsewhere. That, Sir, I think, the best way to proceed, instead of going before an unwilling jury, and before parties who can thwart all our efforts to assert our privileges. There is nothing new in this principle. It is acted upon by every election committee of this House. I will only mention the instance