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quences only-to the great distinction of Catholic and Protestant-I cannot think that I shall advance the cause of the former by changing the principle of our policy-I say nothing of the practice-on these matters, only to this extent that whereas conformity is now the rule applicable to all Dissenters, whether Catholic or Protestant, the effect of the present measure, if successful, will be (I do not say the object) to make the Catholic and the Catholic alone, in law as well as in practice, the exception. I wish to avoid discussing the question; but I cannot help asking gentlemen, who like myself are anxious for the success of the Catholic question, whether they do not think that this will be setting up, and giving increased strength to, the objection now urged against the Catholics, in respect to their spiritual dependance on the See of Rome-whether this objection will not be urged by many of the Protestant Dissenters themselves, and with increased effect, when they themselves are relieved from the general principle which now exists; and I own, Sir, that in matters of toleration, I am not disposed to extend to any one particular sect more than it is intended to grant to others. I am not abstractedly unfriendly to the proposition of the noble lord; but I cannot assent to it, because I am sure that, with reference to the great question of the Catholic claims, it will make a bad impression. I am convinced that the present measure, so far from being a step in favour of the Catholic claims, will, if successful, be the means of arraying an additional power against them. Upon that point I would appeal to the noble lord opposite.-[Lord Nugent, across the table, expressed his dissent from the proposition.] Will the noble lord take upon himself to say, that the feeling in favour of the Roman Catholics is general—is universal-through all the Dissenters of this country? I am convinced, I repeat, that the present step, so far from being a step in favour of the Catholic claims, will be the means of arraying an addi

tional power against them. I know something of the feelings of the Dissenters, as well as the noble lord who presented the petition of the Roman Catholic nobility and gentry in their favour; and I can tell that noble lord, that there would be something revolting to my feelings to say to the first duke of the realm, "Your hereditary honours and privileges must continue under forfeiture, but I cannot bear the thoughts of an exciseman being exposed to the humiliation of being indemnified against contingent penalties, for insuring himself against the risk of which he would not, I am convinced, give the value of one single day's pay." I will tell the noble lord who has introduced the subject, that if the question were carried and finally settled, he would find in the great body of Dissenters (not, indeed, amongst the liberal and enlightened part of that body) a strong feeling of opposition to the claims of the Catholics. Will the noble lord deny, that there are in this country a great many persons-perhaps a majority-who most sincerely, and conscientiously, and honourably entertain the greatest apprehensions, lest the Roman Catholics should be allowed a further participation in the privileges of the constitution, unless under certain engagements? I am ready to contend, that there is not one of those persons who is not convinced, that whenever concession is made, it ought to be accompanied with some strong tests-with some effectual securities. And, if this be the case, I ask the noble lord, whether he does not think that this class of sincere Protestants, who, if the oaths against supremacy and transubstantiation were removed, are anxious that some other securities should be given-would not feel it desirable to ask, with reference to the Roman Catholics, that on their part some guards, some securities should be given, if fresh privileges were extended to them? Not only might the Protestant Dissenters but the Church of England-men ex

claim, in the event of a concession of the Catholic claims "We will have this check-we will have an annual Bill of Indemnity!" I do not mean to say that they could have this for ever, but I will assert, that if such a proposition were moved previously to the introduction of the Catholic question, it would raise new obstacles to the accomplishment of that measure.

There is another point of view, in which I would wish this motion to be considered by the friends of the Catholics. The Test Act was framed originally for the purpose of their exclusion; every gentleman knows the strong and honest, and sincere apprehensions which are still entertained in this country against their admission to power; every body admits that some civil tests and securities are necessary. Now, let me ask of gentlemen to consider whether, with many, who have a friendly inclination to the Catholics, something like this mode of reasoning may not have its weight ?

Should the Catholics be admitted to power, by a modification of the oaths against transubstantiation and supremacy, which particularly affect them, in the absence of other securities which might be satisfactory, this of the Test Act would still remain. It would remain a possible check upon them, subject to annual indemnity, so long as they did nothing to provoke its application; but with the possibility of withholding that indemnity, should there exist sufficient cause to do so.

I say this is not an impossible view of the subject to be taken by many an honest and timorous Protestant, who might be inclined to afford relief to the Catholics; and I would not have the Catholics make too sure that, if the Test Act were repealed, many a Dissenter would not find in the loss of that check an additional motive against yielding to his Catholic brethren the same measure of emancipation which he now seeks for himself.

Entertaining this view of the question, I for one, Sir, am not prepared to support the noble lord's motion. I thank the noble lord for the moderate, yet able manner, in which he has brought forward his case. I am quite sure, if the discussion leads to dissension out of doors, or to any exasperation of those feelings which are generally mixed up with questions of this kind, that such an effect cannot be traced to the way in which the subject has been introduced. Such disssension and evil feelings can only arise from the nature of the case itself, and cannot be attributed to the tone or temper in which the noble lord has approached the subject. Nothing, I am bound to say, can be more mild, more prudent, or more discreet, than the way in which the noble lord has brought the question before the House. Such, Sir, are my feelings upon the subject; and being strongly impressed with the truth and justice of the important principle contained in the Correspondence of Mr. Pitt with his late Majesty, to which I have referred, I have deemed it to be my duty to take the position which I have done upon this occasion.

The House divided: For the motion, 237. Against it

EMIGRATION-PASSENGERS REGULATION BILL.

March 4.

Mr. Wilmot Horton moved for a copy of the Report laid before the Cabinet Department by Lieutenant Colonel Cockburn, on the subject of Emigration; together with the Instructions received from that Department in January 1827; and also for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the conveyance of Passengers in Merchant Vessels from the United Kingdom to foreign parts. Sir James Graham having asked, whether it really was the intention of Government to revive the Passengers' Act, after the report of the last session?

Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON said, he felt in common with his right honourable friend, that no matter required earlier attention than the revival of certain provisions of the Pas

sengers Act. If the honourable baronet had seen all the reports from New Brunswick and the other colonies, to which there had been a considerable emigration last year, he would be satisfied of the propriety of such a course. Those who arrived had carried with them contagious disorders of the worst description. In some instances, the gaol fever devastated whole townships, to the destruction of not less than one-tenth of the population. The interests of humanity loudly demanded that immediate measures should be taken to secure for the passengers in those vessels a sufficient space, and a due attention to their comforts and accommodation. There were many provisions in the old act of an objectionable nature; but no time should be lost in reviving the material provisions of that act, as the season was fast approaching when vessels with passengers would be clearing for the Colonies and North America. He would not enter then upon the discussion of the subject immediately before the House, nor examine whether there existed an excess of population beyond that for which employment could be found. But, while that was an evil in itself, there were other evils and other considerations which should be attended to. One of the greatest of these-an evil not impossible in any country, and not improbable in this—was, that there might exist a great emigration from amongst the population, without a corresponding emigration of capital; and thus they would be only transferring a portion of the existing mischief to other quarters of the world. If individuals were encouraged to emigrate, they should be enabled to employ themselves profitably, in the new countries to which they were sent, and the capital at present lying idle in this country might be advantageously put in requisition for that purpose.

Mr. Hume said, that the Emigration Committee had recommended the repeal of the Act which it was now proposed to revive, on the ground that it had prevented the emigration of thousands to America.

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