HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ON HOUSE RESOLUTION NO. 103 TO INVESTIGATE THE EXPENDITURES IN THE JULY 13, 1911 WASHINGTON GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. Committee Room 286, House Office Building. Telephone 583. Meets on call of chairman.] JACK BEALL, Texas, Chairman. JAMES C. CANTRILL, Kentucky. ELBERT A. HUBBARD, Iowa. JNO. E. HOLLINGSWORTH, Clerk. EXPENDITURES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES, Thursday, July 13, 1911. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Jack Beall (chairman) presiding. TESTIMONY OF MR. THOMAS W. GILMER. (The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. What position do you hold, Mr. Gilmer? Mr. GILMER. Chief of the Division of Judicial Accounts, Treasury Department. The CHAIRMAN. In what office is that? Mr. GILMER. Office of the Auditor for the State and Other Departments, Treasury Department. I am not connected with the Department of Justice; I want to make that plain. The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would give an outline of the procedure in connection with the payment of any charge for services rendered the Department of Justice. Take it up at the beginning, and go through the Department of Justice, until the time it reaches your office. Mr. GILMER. The salaries and expenses of officers and employees of the Department of Justice are paid by the disbursing clerk of the Department of Justice. Advances of funds are made to the disbursing clerk by means of accounts or warrants. The amounts of the appropriations are placed to his credit with the Treasurer of the United States, and the disbursing clerk draws his check on the Treasurer of the United States to pay the vouchers as approved by the officials of the Department of Justice. He makes up a monthly account, which is sent to the Auditor for the State and Other Departments. This monthly account is then examined by the auditor, and such items as appear to be illegal or unauthorized are either suspended or disallowed in the statements that are made by the auditor. The CHAIRMAN. About when does that account reach your office? Mr. GILMER. An account reaches us usually within 10 days after the end of the month-the monthly account. The CHAIRMAN. What is the guide of your office in determining whether or not an expenditure is proper or improper? Mr. GILMER. We examine the voucher in connection with the appropriation act, the act of Congress making an appropriation. If it seems to be within the terms of the appropriation, and has the proper approvals on it, and is in accordance with the regulations, the voucher is allowed. The CHAIRMAN. Take an item for travel exenses; out of what fund is that payable? Mr. GILMER. A bill for travel expenses may be paid out of a number of different appropriations, according to the nature of the business the man is traveling on. The CHAIRMAN. There is a specific appropriation for the Department of Justice for traveling and miscellaneous expenses? Mr. GILMER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Are all traveling expenses paid out of that fund? Mr. GILMER. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Why are they not? Mr. GILMER. The appropriation for traveling and miscellaneous expenses has been held to apply only to those officers and employees of the department who are not otherwise provided for. The CHAIRMAN. Held by whom to apply only to those? Mr. GILMER. By the accounting officers-the auditor and the comptroller. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know why they hold that? Mr. GILMER. It has been held that all the expenses in connection with any particular branch of the service should be borne by the appropriation for that branch of the service. The CHAIRMAN. Why should that be held, where there is a specific appropriation for traveling expenses? Mr. GILMER. As to specific appropriations, the one available is the one which is considered the most specific. Now, you take, for illustration, the appropriation for detection and prosecution of crimes. An employee under detection and prosecution of crimes would have his traveling expenses paid from that appropriation and not from the appropriation for traveling and miscellaneous expenses, because the appropriation for detection and prosecution of crimes is considered more specific than the other one, because it has to bear all the expenses of that particular branch of the service. The CHAIRMAN. The whole Department of Justice is very largely designed for the detection and prosecution of crimes. Why would not the traveling expenses of a person connected directly with the Department of Justice here be payable out of that fund? Mr. GILMER. Out of travel and miscellaneous? The CHAIRMAN. No; out of the fund for the detection and prosecution of crimes. Mr. GILMER. Why would not what? The CHAIRMAN. Why would not the traveling expenses of an Assistant Attorney General, whose business it is to assist in the detection and prosecution of crime, be payable out of that fund? Mr. GILMER. You see, he does not belong to that particular branch of the service, which comes under the Bureau of Investigations. He is not an employee of the Bureau of Investigations. All the employees of the Bureau of Investigations are paid out of their own fund, the detection and prosecution of crimes. The CHAIRMAN. Take the fund for the enforcement of the antitrust and the commerce acts. All the department here, in one way or another, is interested, is engaged, in the enforcement of those laws. Why would not their traveling expenses be payable out of that fund? Mr. GILMER. There are only certain officers and employees of the Department of Justice who are engaged in antitrust matters. The CHAIRMAN. Is not the Attorney General? Mr. GILMER. He is, as the head of the department. The CHAIRMAN. Is not the assistant to the Attorney General? Mr. GILMER. One of the assistants is in charge of the antitrust business. The CHAIRMAN. It is within the power of the Attorney General to designate any one of his assistants to give particular attention to the enforcement of the antitrust laws, is it not? Mr. GILMER. The intention in making that appropriation for traveling and miscellaneous I believe was to pay only those who are not more specifically provided for elsewhere. The CHAIRMAN. When did they begin paying them out of any fund other than this fund that is specifically appropriated for traveling and miscellaneous expenses? Mr. GILMER. I could not say just when that began. The CHAIRMAN. Is it not a matter of comparatively recent origin? Mr. GILMER. I do not think the appropriation for traveling and miscellaneous expenses has been in existence for a great many years; I do not think more than 10 or 12 years-but I would not be sure about that. The CHAIRMAN. You people down there in the Treasury Department have jurisdiction over these matters. What did you understand the purpose of Congress was in making a specific appropriation for traveling expenses and miscellaneous expenses? Mr. GILMER. It has been treated as a sort of an emergency fund; that is, to pay those expenses which could not be put elsewhere. The CHAIRMAN. Why would they want to put them elsewhere? Why has not the Treasury insisted upon a sufficient appropriation being made, under the name of " traveling expenses," to meet all the requirements of traveling expenses? Mr. GILMER. You see, the Treasury does not make these appropriations that is, it does not ask for the appropriations, except in the way of making a digest of them. The Attorney General would ask for whatever appropriations he would want for his department, and they would go through the Treasury Department just as a matter of digesting and putting them in shape. The CHAIRMAN. The Treasury Department does no have to pass on the question when it comes to the payment of the items of traveling expenses? Mr. GILMER. Yes; we pass on the account. The CHAIRMAN. Why have you not insisted that all those payments be made out of the fund appropriated for that purpose? Mr. GILMER. We do not think that the appropriation of traveling and miscellaneous expenses was intended to cover all the travel of the department. The CHAIRMAN. Why should it not be made large enough to cover all of that? An appropriation is made for traveling expenses. The Attorney General makes a report of all expenditures made out of that fund, and Congress is advised of the amount of the appropriation and the amount of the expenditures for traveling expenses. Is |