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Cameron. I think I carried more matter for Senator Cameron than I did for Governor Hunt.

Q. What was the general character of the matter that you carried for Senator Cameron?

A. Political discussions, editorials, and reprinting of letters and telegrams and political matter of a general nature.

Q. What would be the value of the space, including your special editions which your paper has given to Senator Cameron in the primaries and during the general primary campaign and general election down to this minute?

A. You mean the unpaid part, Senator, or the total values ?
Q. Was any paid?

1. Well, there was some paid and some unpaid matter from the various candidates.

Q. I am speaking of Senator Cameron. 4. Well, I would have to investigate it to know. I don't know.

Q. Have you never figured the amount in value, your contribution in printing space for advertisements for Senator Cameron was?

A. No, I never have; no.

Q. How many special editions have been issued of your paper carrying advertisements for and in behalf of Senator Cameron?

d. I think four.
Q. Only four?
A. Four; that is my memory.

Q. Have you a copy here of one of those special editions; if not, has anybody! Judge LYMAN. Yes. 1. This is one of what we call " Home folks edition," Senator.

Q. Thank you. You have handed the chairman a paper called the : Daily Arizona Silver Belt, printed in Miami, Ariz., Saturday eveping, October 30, 1926, consisting of

Q. Eight pages. That is devoted almost entirely, is it not, to Mr. Cameron?

A. To the two candidates; yes, sir. Q I said to Mr. Cameron. A. No; I don't-not entirely; no, Judge. Q. Examine the first page and the second page and the third page and one-half the fourth page, and all of the fifth page, and the latter half of the sixth page, and half of the seventh page and of the eighth page

, and I will ask you if that, if the pages that I have stated and the fractions of pages are not devoted to Senator Cameron and his

candidacy. I am making no criticism; I am just trying to get the pt facts.

d. Some of this is news there; some of this we consider news. This was gotten up in our regular newspaper and put over in this It has reference to Senator Cameron's political situation.

Q. Yes; all right. You call it news!

1. Yes: some of it certainly is news. Will Irwin's article exposed; it is an exposure with this affidavit from Edgar Mills.

Q. I am just asking you whether you call it news.
A. Yes; some of it I do call news.
Q. Relating to Senator Cameron?

À. Eight pages.

A. Yes.
Q. That is the first page. Now, the second page is the same!
A. Yes; the second is practically all news of that same nature.
Q. Relating to the same Cameron, to Senator Cameron?
A. Yes, sir; and the third page is the same.
Q. Proceed.

A. Except on the third page, we have one, two, three, practically three columns of editorial matter, I should judge; political matter; three columns of political editorial matter on page 3. I judge it to be that.

Q. You recall that I asked only for half of the page for Senator Cameron. I am right in that regard?

A. And on page 4
Q. Be as prompt as you can.

A. I am trying to answer it quite accurately; it is all I can do. Page 4 is practically all editorial, and page 5 is a continuation of page 1, news of a Cameron nature. Page 6-half of it is devoted to Governor Hunt's campaign and half to Senator Cameron's campaign. Page 7 is half Senator Cameron and half Governor Hunt, and page 8

8 is news and editorial matter concerning Senator Cameron.

Q. In fact, the whole paper is devoted, then, to Senator Cameron's candidacy?

A. No; I would not say that. I would say that probably about 75 per cent, Senator; 60 to 75 per cent.

Q. How many papers were there in each issue?
A. They varied.
Q. The first issue how many?

A. Well, I don't know how many there were in that particular issue; I would not say that.

Q. Well, I want the facts. Have you got it?

A. I can give you the total number of papers published in all of the issues of the special editions.

Q. Assuming there were only four, if you had the information as the the papers published, how is it that you are not equally certain as to the number of editions ?

A. Because they ran one into the other; that is why.
Q. What do you mean by that?

A. Well, we would get up an issue and probably repeat that edition somewhere else.

Q. At some other time?

A. Yes; that is why. For instance, I would not run them all off the same day; I would probably run off a few at one time and a few at another time. The total is the best way to get at it. The total number of papers printed was 52,600.

Q. Was that total amount of 52,600 in four editions the same?
A. It depends on what you classify as an edition, Senator.
Q. What do you denominate an edition?

A. I would say an edition is the papers that carried one particular set and group of matter. I might get it out, part of it to-day and part of it to-morrow, or a part of it two or three days later. You see, our facilities for printing are limited to our equipment, and it takes considerable time, sometimes 10, 15, or 20 hours to get it out.

Q. Have you printed the same matter in more than one place! A. Yes.

Q. You said, as I understood you, that you printed it in several towns. Name the places in which you have printed it.

A. We have printed it all in one town, but we have sent it to different towns in the State.

Q. It was printed all in one town?
A. Yes.
Q. In which town?
A. In Miami; in our plant at Miami.
Q. And were the dates of the editions substantially alike?
A. No.
Q. The dates of the printed matter in each edition?
A. No.
Q. It varied ?

A. I think there were four all told, one of each of the four was the same, substantially the same—52,600 copies were divided into approximately four editions having similar matter in each edition.

Q. Have you got a copy here?
A. Not here.
Q. Of each of the various issues!
A. No, I have not.
Q. You will furnish the committee with that?
Mr. Flynn. May I offer the Senator two?

Senator King. I am handed two papers here. Examine those and see if they are a part of either edition and if so, whether first, second, third, or fourth.

A. Now, if you denominate it as an additional edition, those that were sent out on a single day, I could do the different classification on that if you desire.

Q. Just state that again, please.

A. I say if you desire it classified by the dates on which they were sent out, I could give you a definite statement on it because I have that classified that way in my report.

Q. I asked you whether those two papers, which I just handed you, belonged to either of the four editions to which you have referred, and if so, to which edition--one, two three, or four?

A. I think this is the same one as I have, isn't it? It seems to me to be the same as I have. Q. Examine it and see.

A. Yes, these two are the same. They are dated on different dates, but they are the same matter.

Q. Well, would you call it the same edition if they are dated on different dates, if the matter is just the same!

A. Yes, sir. That is what we did do, Senator.

Q. Is that the way you differentiate all papers printed on different dates that contain the same matter; you call it one edition? A. Yes, sir; that is the way I designated it to you. Q. I am not complaining; we just want the facts.

A. That is what I said. If you wanted it classified as to dates, but the copies may be different on those dates. There may be two days with similar matter in them. Q. You call that one issue?

A. One issue, if they had the same material in it. Here are two issues here, but I can supply a copy of each one. Now, on October 19, 9,500 copies; October 15, 1,600; October 21, 10,000 copies; Octo

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ber 25, 15,000 copies; October 27, 2,000 copies; October 29, 4,500 copies; October 30, 10,000 copies, making a total of 52,600 copies.

Q. Now, that is all of this special, what you call your special editions?

A. This is the aggregate number of copies printed; yes, sir.
Q. Beginning on the 19th and terminated on October 30 1
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you any other edition ready to be issued to-day?
A. Just the regular edition, I understand.
Q. The regular edition ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What will be the number of copies of your regular edition?
A. Oh, between-about 2,500.
Q. How many regular editions have you printed between October
19 and the present time?

A. Every day, Senator, except Sundays.
Q. Has the number of your regular editions exceeded 2,500.
A. Not to my knowledge; no.
Q. You would know, would you not?

A. Not necessarily; no. I would not know. I don't have that close contact with the business, Senator.

Q. I wish you would furnish me with a copy of every regular edition during September, October, and November 1.

A. What were the dates, please?
Q. September, October, down to and including November 1.

A. Now, there is one edition that we got out that I haven't mentioned yet. That during the primary. We got the edition of what we call®“ The home folks magazine” out during the primary.

Q. Have you a copy of that here?
A. No, sir.
Q. What was that devoted to?
A. I think almost exclusively to the Hunt campaign.
Q. Did it mention Senator Cameron?

A. I believe it did indirectly. He had no opposition in that campaign, but it mentioned him incidentally.

Q. Did it carry any advertisement of him?
A. I doubt if it carried any advertisement--no paid advertising.

Q. Now, during September did you have any special edition in behalf of Senator Cameron and Governor Hunt or either?

A. During September?
Q. Yes.

A. That is for the primaries, isin't it, just this one that I am telling about.

Q. The primary was on the 7th of September?
A. Just that one edition that I am telling you about.
Q. That is the only special edition?
A. That is the only one that I recall now.
Q. How many copies of that edition?

A. I don't remember. I think somewhere around, between 5,000) and 10,000—I am not certain.

Q. Were there any special editions in October, prior to the 19th of October?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Please be certain of that, if you can be, Mr. Van Dyke.

A. Well, it is pretty hard to remember 62,000 copies of papers, and what was in each one of them, Senator. To the best of my recollection there was none between the 1st and

Q. The 19th ?
A. And the 19th.

Q. Now, at your rates for advertising, what would you have charged, or would you charge for those special editions, the aggregate number of papers being 52,600 ?

A. That isn't my arrangement and I couldn't answer that without investigating it. I don't know. I would first have to look up the rate—you mean at the regular charge rate to the advertiser-if I gave it at the campaign advertising rate, or do you mean the actual cost to us?

Q. First, I want the cost to the advertisers, assuming some candidate for the Senate, or governor in whom you have no special interest, perhaps of opposite political faith, for your regular rates as to publishing material which you have printed in those four editions in the manner and at the times and in the places printed by you and circulated as you circulated these 52,600 copies, what the cost would be?

A. I can't answer that. I don't know, and I am not enough of a figurer to be able to figure it out. I don't have the facts nor the factors.

Q. You have the facts as to the number of editions you issued ? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you have the facts as to the quantity of paper that would be required to print those ?

A. Yes, sir. I can't answer those questions. I can answer what the cost is to us on this particular work approximately, what the cost will be to me, what I expect to charge off for it.

Q. If you will not be betraying a secret of the trade, what is the difference in the cost and what you charge back?

A. Well, the difference is the profit of it. Q. I want you to understand that I don't want to show the profits which you newspaper men make, because the Lord knows


of you don't make

A. (Interrupting.) I will tell you, yes.

Q. It isn't for that purpose; but I am trying to ascertain what would be the value of this in dollars and cents to the advertiser. He may not get any value then but

Å. If you will proceed in my own way I can tell you what the cost is to us on this thing and what it has cost us for it. Now, I judge

Q. First, does that include now—you may answer that, but I wanted to find out the factors which you employ—that you figure in the cost to you. Do you figure in the cost to you the intellectual effort involved and the labor in preparing these advertisements?

A. No, sir; that is immaterial-
Q. Because it would cost a good deal, I imagine.

A. This material is material that was gotten up for our regular edition and was already set up for the regular edition.

Q. Did it all appear in the regular edition?

A. Yes, sir; but not at the same time, but it would be saved out on the block; so we figure that cost is dissipated in the regular

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