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Statement of
Safford, George D.

Simpson, James.-
Morrisson, Mrs. Mary F-
McBride, F. Scott.-

Davis, E. J.
Willoughby, Chester A.
O'Brien, Robert E.---
Ickes, Harold L--
Noble, Dr. W. L-
Stern, Alfred K..
Coffin, Percival B.
West, Roy O., resumed.-
Rosenwald, Julius
Magill, Hugh S..
Plamondon, A. D.
Thiele, Emil.
Hay, Logan.
Emmons, Hugh Pat..
Bossert, Walter F-

Walb, Clyde A.

Peters, R. E.

Lyons, Robert W.
McKay, Robert F.
Morgan, Bert.---.
Watson, Senator James E.
Robinson, Senator Arthur R.


Lockhart, Mrs. L. T.

Moorman, J. T.
Fillmore, Charles M.
Honeywell, Evelyn.--
Bolen, James Burnell..

Squire, Dr. W. C---
Smith, W. Lee.--
Myers, Joseph, jr.
Prince, F. J
Douglas, W. A. S.-
Libby, Frederick J.
Granger, Rollie C. J.

Bradford, Ralph B.
Meyers, George W
Duvall, John L---
Males, Herbert
Winings, Mark E.
Ellrod, Milton
Renn, Arie P.
Rogers, William M.
Walmsley, H. R-

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Chicago, III.
The committee met, pursuant to the call of the chairman, at 11.15
o'clock a. m., in the Federal building, Chicago, Ill., Senator James
A. Reed presiding.
Present: Senator Reed of Missouri (chairman).

The CHAIRMAX. I have been handed an anonymous communication, and I will say now to the people who are here that anonymous ommunications are of no value whatever to this committee. A man who is not willing to back up a statement by his presence, or by his name, can not do us any good.

I wish to say to the members of the press and to the witnesses that I got here as soon as I could this morning. I am afraid I am the only member of the committee who will be here, because Senator Goff is in Europe, Senator La Follette is ill and in bed, Senator MeXary wires that he can not be here for some days, and Senator King I have not heard from. However, under the authority of the

resolution I will proceed, in the name of the committee, with such | matters as we have to take up.

All the witnesses who have been subpænaed and are in the room will please stand and give their names.

(The following witnesses responded :)

C. A. Willoughby, George B. Safford, E. J. Davis, James Simpon, Mrs. James Morrison.


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.)

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Safford, you were examined once before by this same committee

Mr. SAFFORD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Your connection with the Anti-Saloon League is that of superintendent for Illinois ?

Mr. SAFFORD. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you know the Reverend Robert O'Brien ?
Mr. SAFFORD. Yes, sir.

The CITAIRMAN. Is he connected in any way with your organization?

Mr. SAFFORD. He is not. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you known him? Mr. SAFFORD. I know him only from two visits which he paid to our office. I never met the gentleman before.

The CHAIRMAX. When did he make those visits?

Mr. SAFFORD. One was on the-well, I can not tell you exactly, Senator, but the second vist was on the 25th of September; and the previous visit was around a month before. I can obtain that information from my memoranda if you desire.

The CHAIRMAN. For all practical purposes I presume it is sufficient to say that the first visit he made was in the neighborhood of August 25. Mr. SAFFORD. Around there. The CHAIRMANN. And the second was on September 25! Mr. SAFFORD. I can give you the exact dates if necessary.

The CHAIRMANX. Did you discuss with him the senatorial political situation in Illinois !

Mr. Safford. That was the sole topic of conversation.
The CHAIRMAN. In whose interest did he talk?

Mr. SAFFORD. He came professing to represent a group which (lesired to secure a candidate to run against Colonel Smith.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you in any way indicate what that group was; what character of men, or how many men there were in it?

Mr. SAFFORD. He told me that Julius Rosenwald, a Mr. Stearns, a Mr. Ickes--I am now discussing the first visit, Senator-the district attorney of Waukegan-

The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember his name?

Mr. SAFFORD. Smith—and there were some others whose names I do not recall.

The CHAIRMAN. What were they going to do? What was their object?

Mr. SAFFORD. The object, as he stated it, was to induce Colonel Smith to withdraw and select a candidate to run in his place.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did he come to you with this? You are not in politics.

Mr. SAFFORD. Perhaps he came to me for advice.

The CHAIRMAN. He came to you to enlist the Anti-Saloon League in this enterprise, did he not! Frankly, is not that the situation?

Mr. SAFFORD. Frankly, Senator, he came to enlist us in the support of Mr. Smith, the district attorney of Waukegan County. He had it in his mind that influences from Washington were going to see that Colonel Smith was removed—this is what he said and wished the Anti-Saloon League to unite with him in support of the county attorney of Waukegan as a candidate.

The CHAIRMAN. That is County Attorney Smith?
The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember his first name?

Mr. SAFFORD. I think it is A. V. Smith. I told him that Mr. Smith was a man of very high character for whom we have a very high regard, but that in my judgment it was idle to talk about running any man as an independent; and the Anti-Saloon League, o far as it had any interest or influence in the matter, could not oncur with him in any such move.

The CHAIRMAN. When you say Mr. Smith was a man of high character you refer to Prosecuting Attorney Smith!

Mr. SAFFORD. Yes, sir. Smith is the man I am discussing now. And he stated that influences were at work to secure the retirement of Col. Frank Smith as a candidate. The CHAIRMAN. From Washington ? Mr. SAFFORD. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. What were those influences? Mr. SAFFORD. He did not tell me.

The CHAIRMAN. What did you understand, from the course of the onversation, that he referred to?

Mr. SAFFORD. I understood it to mean that some sort of an appointment would be tendered to him. | The CHAIRMAN. By the administration?

The CHAIRMAN. That is, by the Coolidge administration?

Mr. SAFFORD. Yes, sir; and I repudiated the idea and told him that I did not believe he knew what he was talking about. The CHAIRMAN. Did he tell you who had made this arrangement?

Mr. SAFFORD. He said that Mr. Rosenwald had just got back from Washington.

The CHAIRMAN. And whom had he seen there?
Mr. SAFFORD. He did not say.
The CHAIRMAN. That is, Mr. Julius Rosenwald?

Mr. SAFFORD. Yes, sir. I was stating what I said. I told him that we would not be interested in anything of that kind, running any man entered as an independent at that late hour; with the powerful party organizations at work it was futile for any man to run as an independent; that if Colonel Smith withdrew, then there would be some chance for his candidate; that we knew him to be a good man and were entirely friendly to any moves in that direction.

The CHAIRMAN. You knew whom to be a good man?

Mr. SAFFORD. This Mr. Smith, of Waukegan; but that unless Colonel Smith withdrew, it was foolish to talk about him, and we would have nothing to do with him.

The CHAIRMAN. Whom were you going to support? To whom were you going to give your support? Mr. SAFFORD. We are supporting Colonel Smith.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the first visit, you have been telling us about?

The CHAIRMAX. What about the second visit, a month later?

Mr. SAFFORD. I heard or saw nothing more of Mr. O'Brien until September 25. Superintendent Scott McBride, general superintendent of the Anti-Saloon League, and myself were in conference at the Anti-Saloon League office when Mr. O'Brien came in. He said he wanted to talk to us about senatorial candidates. I told him that if he had any new propositions to make, it was foolish to make them; that five weeks before a campaign it was impossible to make any headway with an independent candidate. Mr. O'Brien then divulged the fact that they had arranged with Mr. Hugh Magill to run as a candidate. We immediately protested and said, “Why do you

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