Mr. INSULL. It would be a very serious thing for me not to be in Chicago next Monday. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Insull, I am going to give you a bit of advice. You can take it or not. I think you had better go to these gentlemen whom you accommodated in this matter and get relieved from any obligation of honor, and come and tell this committee. The committee does not want to proceed to extremities, but as this situation stands, it will have to go as far as it can go to get this evidence; and you understand this is not at all in the nature of a threat, because it is not so meant. It is in the nature of a kindly suggestion. Mr. INSULL. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. We will proceed now with another witness, and when the other members of the committee are all here we will advise you as to the time we want you to return. Mr. GOLDER. I represent Mr. Cunningham, and he has asked me to sit with him and advise him. The CHAIRMAN. You will be permitted to sit here, in the capacity of an attorney, but the committee will conduct the examination. TESTIMONY OF THOMAS W. CUNNINGHAM (The witness was sworn by the chairman.) Mr. GOLDER. Mr. Chairman, if any questions are asked which I consider Mr. Cunningham should not answer, should I address myself to the Chair? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Your full name is? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Thomas W. Cunningham. The CHAIRMAN. You are the same Thomas W. Cunningham who appeared before this committee? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I am. The CHAIRMAN. And gave certain testimony, and refused to answer certain questions at the previous hearing? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Cunningham, the committee has called you before it the second time in order to permit you an opportunity to answer the questions you declined to answer before, and afford you the opportunity to answer such other questions as may be put to you. Mr. Cunningham, on your previous examination you stated [reading]: I handed money to Thomas F. Watson $25,000 on the 10th day of April, 1926. Then this follows, as shown by the record of the proceedings [reading]: The CHAIRMAN. Where did you get that money? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I got that money out of my own private funds. The CHAIRMAN. How is that? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Out of my own private funds. The CHAIRMAN. Your own private moneys? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; my own money; my own money. The CHAIRMAN. How long had it been your own money? Mr. Golder at that time stated an objection, which appears in the record. The question was repeated, as follows [reading]: The CHAIRMAN. How long had it been your own money? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer that question, Senator, as a personal question. It is my own private business. I now ask you that same question again, Mr. Cunningham. The CHAIRMAN. On behalf of the committee, I instruct you to answer the question. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. The next question which was asked you was as follows [continuing reading]: The CHAIRMAN. Where did you get this $25,000 you say you gave to Mr. Watson? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer that question. I think that is personal. I now ask you, on behalf of the committee, the same question, and await your answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. On behalf of the committee, I instruct you to answer. Mr. GOLDER. Mr. Chairman, may I The CHAIRMAN. No; you may not. This man is getting along all right. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Now, you may make any suggestion you want to. Mr. GOLDER. Too late now, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. I do not intend that you shall suggest the answers to a witness while I am examining him. You may make any objection you want to. Mr. GOLDER. I addressed myself to the Chair, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. I want to extend every courtesy and every right. Mr. GOLDER. You usually do, Senator. I do not think you understood me. The CHAIRMAN. The next question that was asked you was as follows [continuing reading]: The CHAIRMAN. Where were you keeping this $25,000 before you gave it to Mr. Watson? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is another personal question, Senator. I refuse to answer it. I now ask you the same question, that is, where were you keeping this $25,000 before you gave it to Mr. Watson? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Again I instruct you, on behalf of the committee, to answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. You were asked a number of questions, which I will read for the context [continuing reading] The CHAIRMAN. Did you give this money to Mr. Watson in cash or by check. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I gave it to him, as cash. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you when you gave it to him? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I took it down to his headquarters at the Walton Hotel on the 10th day of April. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have it in your pocket when you gave it to himbefore you gave it to him? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Where did you get it from to put in your pocket? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is a personal question, and I decline to answer it. That is, where did I now ask you again, where did you get it? you get this money from to put in your pocket? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. And I direct you, on behalf of the committee, to answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. The next question asked you was [continuing reading]: The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Cunningham, how long had you had this money in your possession? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is another personal question, and I decline to answer it. It was my own money, and I do not think I should tell the public where I kept it and how I got it, or anything else about it. I now ask you, how long had you had this money in your possession? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Again I instruct you to answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. You were then asked questions touching your salary, and after that, this question [reading]: The CHAIRMAN. Was this money which you refer to as the $25,000 that you gave to Watson, savings from your salary? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is another personal question. I can not answer that. I now ask you again, was this $25,000 which you refer to as the $25,000 that you gave to Watson, savings from your salary? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. And I instruct you, on behalf of the committee, to answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Cunningham, you recall the testimony you gave before, I take it, fairly well? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I think I do, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. We have called you here for the purpose of giving you an opportunity to purge yourself of what we regard as contempt of the committee and of the Senate. Do you still stand upon your refusal to answer the questions which were asked you on the previous hearing? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I do, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have nothing to say further as to your reasons for refusing to answer than you stated before? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I have not. The Chairman. Mr. Cunningham, I think you will have to agree that at least the committee has given you every opportunity to make an explanation. If you do not desire to make it, of course, you have the right. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The only thing I was interested in, as I told you before, Senator, was Beidleman, and not any other project. If he had not been on the ticket I would not have given it. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether it was reported in Mr. Beidleman's campaign expenses? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I really do not know that. I instructed Mr. Watson what my thought was about it, because he had been a friend of mine for forty odd years, and that was my only interest in it. The CHAIRMAN. You are excused from further attendance on the committee, sir. Is Mr. Insull or his attorney here? Mr. Insull, the committee wants to inquire why you can not, if you are released now, be back here Saturday morning? You can, in the meantime, instruct your bookkeepers and auditors, or whoever you want to consult, over the telephone, and you can go and get your papers and come back by Saturday morning. We are about at the end of this session, and we do not intend to pass this session without submitting our report to the Senate. Mr. INSULL. I will do the best I can. The CHAIRMAN. Very well, then. Saturday morning, your train arrives at 9 o'clock. Mr. INSULL. What time shall I be here Saturday morning? Mr. INSULL. All right. I will be here. The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, that concludes the hearing. (Whereupon, at 3.30 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until Saturday, February 26, 1927, at 10 o'clock a. m.) Your committee respectfully submits the following observations: The witness Robert E. Crowe answered the questions put to him by your committee and supplied the information previously withheld concerning the source of $15,000 collected by him in behalf of the regular Republican committee, or Crowe-Barrett organization. Therefore your committee recommends that, in the discretion of the Senate, the testimony of the said Crowe as above set forth be considered in mitigation or rectification of his previous contumacy. The witness Daniel T. Schuyler, an attorney for Samuel Insull, modified his previous testimony to include the admissions of the said Crowe, to wit: That he had contributed a sum of $2,000 personally, and a sum of $5,000 in currency which he had received from Samuel Insull to the said Crowe to be expended in behalf of Captain Savage, a local candidate on the Crowe-Barrett slate. The witness Schuyler further admitted receiving $40,000 in cash or currency in two payments of $20,000 each from Samuel Insull, his principal, to be used in the Illinois primary elections, but refused to disclose the identity of the person or persons to whom this money was paid or the purpose for which it was contributed, other than the general statement that it was intended for local political purposes. He further refused to disclose any other information concerning the transaction. The witness Samuel Insull likewise modified his testimony to include the admissions of the said Crowe and Schuyler, to wit: That he had paid $5,000 in cash to his attorney, the said Schuyler, to be contributed through the said Crowe as aforesaid, and that he had given to the said Schuyler the sum of $40,000 as aforesaid. The witness Insull refused to state the specific purpose for which this large amount of money was to be expended and the person or persons to whom it was paid. The witness Insull read a prepared statement in which he declared in substance that he released all others involved in the transaction, but that he regarded himself as bound not to divulge the destination or purpose of his contribution. When asked if this formal release included his attorney, the said Schuyler, the witness Insull replied that he regarded Schuyler bound to secrecy equally with himself. The witness Schuyler had previously stated and then retracted the statement that he regarded the transactions as a privileged communication between lawyer and client. Samuel Insull was directed by the committee to appear again before it on Saturday, February 26, 1927, at 10 o'clock a. m., in order that the said Insull might bring checks and records which he had been directed to furnish to the committee. Upon his appearance before your committee the said Insull was again questioned concerning the transactions above referred to. The complete transcript of the proceedings of your committee on that date follows and is hereby incorporated in this report and made a part hereof. |