The CHAIRMAN. You may make your objections and make them in a proper way. Mr. Cunningham, is there any other reason than the one you have given, or are there any other reasons than those you have given, why you refuse to answer the questions that have been put to you touching the sources from which the $25,000 came? Have you any other reasons than those you have given? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is all, Senator; just personal reasons. The CHAIRMAN. Very well; that is all I want to cover. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. All right, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you when the subpoena was issued for you from this committee, while it was having its sessions in Washington? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I went on a vacation on the 19th day of June and did not get back until the 8th day of July. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you during that interval? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I was on an automobile tour up through the southern coast of New Jersey. The CHAIRMAN. What places did you visit? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I think that is a private, personal question, Senator. I would not answer it. The CHAIRMAN. Where did you stay nights? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I think that is another private question, as I have said. What material difference does it make? I am not in the habit of having to tell where I went and what I did; never have in my life, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. You knew that a subpoena had been issued for you, did you not? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The last three or four days I got in touch with the papers, and I found out that there were subpoenas, according to the newspapers, and I came back to Philadelphia on the 8th day of July. The CHAIRMAN. Did you give any other money than the $25,000 to anybody during this campaign? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; on the 13th of April I gave Mr. Watson $25,000 more. The CHAIRMAN. So that you gave Mr. Watson a total of $50,000? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. $50,000; of my own money. The CHAIRMAN. Where did you get the second $25,000 from? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer that question, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. You refuse to tell the committee anything about where you received this money from? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, I do. The CHAIRMAN. The sources from which the money was received? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. How long had the money been in your possession? You refuse to tell that to the committee? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I certainly do, because I think that is a personal, private question. The CHAIRMAN. How long had you been saving up or accumulating this $50,000? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I do not like to object to your questions, Senator, because I think a man's own money—why, I don't want to make it public to the press, to the newspapers in Philadelphia, about my private affairs, how I got this money or how I saved it. The CHAIRMAN. Have you inherited any considerable sums of money? The CHAIRMAN. Have you been speculating in stocks or bonds or upon the board, so that you accumulated the money in that way? Mr. GOLDER. I object to that question and advise Mr. Cunningham that he need not answer. The CHAIRMAN. What does the witness say? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Have you turned in on your tax returns any $50,000 for taxation purposes? Mr. GOLDER. I object to that question. Senator, and advise the witness that he need not answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Have you paid to the State of Pennsylvania, the county in which you live, or the city in which you live, any taxes upon this $50,000? Mr. GOLDER. I object to that question, Senator, and advise the witness that he need not answer. As a matter of fact, there is no taxation in Pennsylvania on any such amount. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Have you returned to the Federal Government this $50,000 in any form? Mr. GOLDER. I object to that question, Senator, and advise the witness he need not answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Did you collect any money from persons employed either by the city of Philadelphia or by the State of Pennsylvania? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Not one dollar. The CHAIRMAN. Were any moneys paid to you by any of these persons I have just referred to? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of any collection of money from State employees for political purposes? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I do not, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of any contributions by the employees of the city to the Vare campaign? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I will tell you for information that in the primary election there is never any assessment of any kind. In primary elections we never heard tell of any donations from employees. The CHAIRMAN. In the primaries? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. In the primary elections. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know Martin Powers? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you spend any of this vacation at his home in New Jersey? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. How is that? The CHAIRMAN. Did you spend any part of your vacation in company with Mr. Martin Powers? Mr. GOLDER. Mr. Chairman, I object to that question. The witness has already testified that he declines to state where and with whom he spent his vacation. The CHAIRMAN. I did not ask him with whom he spent it until just now.. Mr. GOLDER. I advise the witness that he need not answer that question. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer the question, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Did you leave the city of Philadelphia with Mr. Powers? Mr. GOLDER. I advise the witness that he need not answer that question, Senator. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did not. The CHAIRMAN. Did you leave the city of Philadelphia in an automobile? Mr. GOLDER. I advise the witness that he need not answer that question, Senator, it being entirely immaterial and a personal matter. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Whose car did you leave in? Mr. GOLDER. I advise the witness that he need not answer that question.. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. You say you know Mr. Powers. What is his business? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I have known Mr. Powers from boyhood. He is a member of the bar, an attorney at law. The CHAIRMAN. Is he connected with a trust company in Philadelphia? The CHAIRMAN. Did Mr. Powers formerly have a partner who is now president of a trust company? Mr. GOLDER. I advise the witness that he need not answer that question. The CHAIRMAN. Oh, well, now, that is getting to be sheer insolence, to advise a witness not to answer a question of that kind. It could not possibly harm this witness. Mr. GOLDER. Perhaps not, Senator; but it might lead to other things. I think we ought to draw the line of advising the witness what he may answer and what he should not answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I do not know anything at all about that, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. If you came here to tell this witness that he should not answer any question, whether it is pertinent or not, you are abusing the courtesy of the committee extended to you, whether it is a thing that could possibly affect his own honor or his own private business. Mr. GOLDER. Senator, I do not agree with you; and I am sorry to disagree with you. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I am sorry you do. Mr. GOLDER. But I must use my own judgment. The CHAIRMAN. You may use it as long as we permit you to sit here; but if you abuse the privilege, you will not sit here. Mr. GOLDER. I do not intend to abuse it, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Well, you are abusing it. Did Powers formerly have a partner whose name began with Mac"? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I do not know the first thing about it, Senator. I do not know anything at all about Powers's private business whatever. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have in your possession, of your own money, 30 days before you say you gave this money to Watson, as much as $1,000? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As much as $1,000? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Oh, yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What bank do you bank in? Mr. GOLDER. Mr. Chairman, I object to that question, and advise the witness that he need not answer. The CHAIRMAN. What is the answer of the witness? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. Have you ever had a bank account anywhere? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Sure. The CHAIRMAN. Where? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I have a bank account for my office. The CHAIRMAN. A bank account in your office? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I say I have to run my office, and therefore I have to use a bank account for the proceeds of my office. The CHAIRMAN. Is that your personal account? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. One of them is; yes. The CHAIRMAN. What bank is it in? Mr. GOLDER. Senator, I object to that question and advise the witness he need not answer where he deposits his money, it being entirely a private matter. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I refuse to answer. The CHAIRMAN. I do not intend to get into an argument with you, Mr. Golder. You know perfectly well that when a man states that he had $50,000, and it was his own money, and assuming, now, that this committee has any jurisdiction— which I understand you challenge, and which you have a right to challenge we have the right to test the reasonableness of that story. We are not concluded by the bald statement that it was the witness's own money; and so we have the right to know, assuming that we have any right at all to conduct this investigation, the source from which this money came, in order that we may ascertain whether, as a matter of fact, the witness did have it. So, with that explanation, I am asking the witness where he kept his bank account? Mr. GOLDER. Senator, may I be permitted to state our position? Mr. GOLDER. May I repeat it, then, in answer to what you have just said? My position is that this committee had no right, in the first place, to inquire whether this witness contributed anything to the Pennsylvania primary. If the witness saw fit to state that he did, that does not waive any right that he may have to refuse to answer any other question connected or disconnected with the $50,000. I do not think this committee had any right to inquire into the $50,000 initially. The CHAIRMAN. And, of course, you think that your opinion is the final word as to the law? Mr. GOLDER. It will be with Mr. Cunningham, at least, at this time. The CHAIRMAN. We will ascertain whether that is true or not a little later. How long have you know Congressman Vare? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Ever since I have been a boy-35 or 40 years, I guess. The CHAIRMAN. Were you in any way connected with his campaign committee, the committee which was conducting his campaign in the last primary? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Only in one way; I was for him after he concluded to be a candidate for United States Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever talk with him? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I talked with him on several occasions about it. The CHAIRMAN. With him during the campaign? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. This was prior to the campaign, before he came out as a candidate. The CHAIRMAN. Did you urge him to come out? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No; I rather urged the other way, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. When he did come out, you became one of his supporters? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Because our organization, as a rule-if the majority make up their mind to be for a candidate the majority made up their minds for William S. Vare, and I went along with the majority. The CHAIRMAN. When you speak of "our organization," what organization do you mean? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The Republican city committee of Philadelphia. We have 48 wards; 48 members of that committee. The CHAIRMAN. Are you a member? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. A member of that committee; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. For which ward? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The tenth ward. The CHAIRMAN. During the campaign, then, after the organization resolved to support Vare, you gave him your loyal support? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Who asked you to make this contribution of $50,000? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Nobody asked me, Senator. I will tell you the reason why I made this contribution. I was a Penrose man to the day he died, in Philadelphia. Eddie Beidleman and Harry Baker have been the same as my two sons, and were very close friends of Penrose's to the day of his death. Beidleman's ambition was to be governor. I was for Beidleman four years ago. George Alder was picked, and he had to step aside. This time I thought that he would make the best governor Pennsylvania ever had. I thought he was the most practical man in the State of Pennsylvania, a man who was a member of the legislature, State senator for four years, lieutenant governor four years, and a real man, and I thought he would make the best governor Pennsylvania ever had, and I was very fond of him. Now, that was my whole interest. The CHAIRMAN. Had you ever made any such contribution as this before out of your own money? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Never before in my life. I had made small contributions, a hundred or five hundred dollars at different times, to help some poor fellow running for council. The CHAIRMAN. Are you a man of considerable means, Mr. Cunningham? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, pretty fairly at the present time. The CHAIRMAN. Did you draw this money out of any bank? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How long had you had it in your pocket? Mr. GOLDER. Mr. Senator, I think we have had that question up before, and I advised him not to answer. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I think I answered that before. The CHAIRMAN. I thought you might change your mind. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No. You are so nice about it, anybody would change their mind if he felt inclined to change it, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. I desire to be nice to everybody. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I know it; I have seen that since I have been here, the last four days. The CHAIRMAN. You are the only man who has come here who has been unwilling to tell where he got his money. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, Senator, I am an American citizen. I was born in the greatest American city to-day in the United States, Philadelphia, and I have never been used to telling people where I went or what I done or how I made my money, and I am too old now to change my thought of mind. The CHAIRMAN. You just formed the habit of independence? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I formed that habit through my late friend, Senator Penrose. I guess I learned that trick from him-saving money and putting it away and keeping it under cover. I have been with him, and I was his friend to the day he died. The CHAIRMAN. You say you learned this habit of putting it away from Penrose? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. He was a past master in not letting his right hand know what his left hand done, and he dealt absolutely in cash. The "long green" was the issue. The CHAIRMAN. Is there any danger involved in your right hand knowing what your left hand does? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, I never let it be known. The CHAIRMAN. You do not even want to know, yourself? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Sometimes I really do not. The CHAIRMAN. And that is one of the attributes of independence in Pennsylvania, is it? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That your right hand shall not know what your left hand does? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. If a great many people would do that, there would not be so much trouble in Chicago and other big cities. The CHAIRMAN. That is, you mean by that, I think, Mr. Cunningham, that if you do a thing secretly enough, so that nobody ever finds out about it, you never have any trouble about it? Mr. CUNNINGHAM. So long as you do it honestly it is all right, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. And if you are doing it honestly, all the more reason for secrecy, I presume? Mr. GOLDER. Senator, are you not really arguing with the witness? The CHAIRMAN. I am trying to get the witness's mental slant on this. Mr. Cunningham, I want to be perfectly frank with you. It will be the duty of the committee to report you to the United States Senate for contempt. That is not a threat; we are not making threats. That is the fact. Then, of course, it will have to be determined whether you have to answer these questions. What the result may be will have to be determined by the Senate and possibly by the courts. I think it is only fair to make that statement to you, and having made it, I ask you if you adhere to the position you have taken in your various refusals to answer. Mr. GOLDER. Senator, your voice dropped near the end; I do not think Mr. Cunningham heard all that you said. The CHAIRMAN. The stenographer will read my statement. (The reporter read as follows:) "Mr. Cunningham, I want to be perfectly frank with you. It will be the duty of the committee to report you to the United States Senate for contempt. That is not a threat; we are not making threats. That is the fact. Then, of course, it will have to be determined whether you have to answer these questions. What the result may be will have to be determined by the Senate and possibly by the courts. I think it is only fair to make that statement to you, and having made it, I ask you if you adhere to the position you have taken in your various refusals to answer?" Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I do, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Very well; that is all, sir. Thomas W. Cunningham appeared before your committee in Chicago, Ill., on July 29, 1926, having been previously sworn. The testimony of the witness, Cunningham, speaks for itself. Every opportunity was given the witness, Cunningham, to testify, and, as his testimony fully discloses, he steadfastly and obdurately refused to give your committee any information. Your committee therefore reports the conduct of Thomas W. Cunningham to the Senate. Your committee respectfully reports that because of the recalcitrance and refusal of said witnesses to answer the interrogatories addressed to them, your committee was unable to ascertain and is therefore unable to report the amounts of moneys which were collected and expended, or the persons from whom collected, in order to promote the nomination of Frank L. Smith. Further, your committee was unable to ascertain and report as to the methods which may have been employed and which may be employed by unfair or dishonest means to secure nominations or conduct elections, or to gather that character of information which Congress is entitled to have in order that it may by proper legislation safeguard the nomination and election of Members of the United S. Rept. 1197, pt. 4, 69-2-3 |