with regard to himself, for he was as much prepared at present as he required to be. But there was a precedency due to the noble lord already alluded to, which he could not discard. He begged, however, to have it understood, that he had no wish for procrastination. The word if, used by the right hon. baronet, was by no means attributable to any part of his conduct in this transaction, for he had always shewn himself willing to proceed in the business, and no part of the delay that had occurred was attributable to him. HOUSE OF COMMONS. he (Mr. R.) could get any person to contract with him on such terms, it would be wrong in him not to close with the offer. After the pattern suits had been approved or, Mr. Rose did give Mr. Courtnay the orders, and some of the battalions were served by him. When he wished, however, to deliver to the noble lord (Temple) 2000 suits which had been prepared, they were refused to be accepted of, on the ground that they were of bad quality, of bad workmanship, and too scanty. In the mean time the noble lord again applied to a Mr. Box, who was a partner of Mr. Dickie, and received an estimate from him, not indeed as he had formerly charged, amounting to 11. 7s. 9d. but to 11. 4s. 9d, being, however, 1s. 9d. per suit more than those furnished by Mr. Courtnay. It appeared from the minutes in the office, that this change had been made in consequence of complaints that the cloathing was of bad quality, bad workmanship, &c. and that letters had accordingly been written to the commanding officers of the different battalions who had been served by Mr. Courtnay, inquiring if the fact was so? The answers to this inquiry had not been produced; and it was of the suppression of them that Mr. Rose complained. He proceeded to read these letters, as they were to be found in the office, and stated, that so far from supporting the truth of the complaints made against the quality of the cloth and work Thursday, July 2. [CLOATHING OF VETERAN BATTALIONS.] -Mr. Rose, agreeably to notice, made his promised motion for the production of certain letters which had passed on the subject of the Cloathing for the Veteran Battalions, and which had not been produced in compliance with a former order of the house. He thought it necessary to explain what the nature of the letters and minutes, which in his opinion were material to the subject in question, and which he presumed to think had been improperly withheld, actually was. When he was appointed one of the joint paymasters of the forces, it occurred to him, that if any savings were likely to be made in the military department, the cloathing was a branch in which it might as probably be effected as in any other. He inquired according-manship furuished by Mr. Courtnay, they ly, how other parts of the service were provided in this respect, and found that a person who contracted for cloathing the marines, did so at a rate greatly lower than that charged for cloathing the invalids. He sent for this person and found that his charge was only 11. 1s. 6d. per suit, whereas the charge then made for cloathing the invalids, was 11. 7s. 9d. It turned out, however, that there was more lace on the cloaths of the Veteran Battalions than the contractor had been aware, he therefore increased his estimate to 11. 3s. Having ascertained this, the right hon. gent. next sent for the person accustomed to cloath the Veteran Battalions, telling him that his wish was not to change any tradesmen, if they could continue to serve the public on nearly the same terms with others. He shewed to this gentleman (Mr. Dickie) the suit of cloaths, furnished by the person to whom he (Mr. R.) had ap· plied, whose name was Courtnay, and asked Lord Temple said, he should not inquire if he (Mr. D.) was willing to serve govern-into the reasons which had induced the right ment agreeably to that pattern, for 11. 3s.? hon gent. to take on himself the present Mr. Dickie replied he could not, and that if statement, when, if there was any thing in uniformly proved his articles to be better, in Mr. Long admitted that applications had been made to him, but the mode was now changed, being by advertisement for estimates. If the noble lord had been at all hurt by the agitating of the present question, he could not help thinking he had himself alone to blame, in carrying away in his pocket such evidence as seemed to support the step which he had taken, and leaving behind him in the office only such evidence as went to condemn him. Lord Howick complained, that these charges were preferred without giving his noble friend the opportunity of a fair trial. From the information his noble friend had received, he was not only justified in transferring the contract as he had done; but he would have been highly culpable if he had not transferred it. He knew not whether the clothing of the marines was furnished by Mr. Courtnay; but he had heard while at the admiralty very general complaints of the marine clothing. it, the Committee of Finance or Commis- | The noble lord referred to his successor, if sioners of Military Inquiry, were, as he applications had not been made to him, from himself stated, the proper persons to inquire more than one battalion, not to change the into the circumstances of it. At the time old clothier. the right hon. gent. originally made his motion, he (lord T.) explained to him, that there were a great many of the letters referred to contained in the minutes, it would therefore be unnecessary to produce them, and in this the right hon. gent.seemed at the time to acquiesce. There was at that time other information and other letters on the subject, which, being of a private nature, and not addressed to him in his public capacity, he did not feel himself authorised to produce. He now, however, had certificates of the facts, contained in those letters, and which he thought material. Mr. Box had cloathed the battalions in question for 15 years previ. ons to the time of Mr. Courtnay's having been employed. Shortly after he (lord T.) came into office, complaints were made to him of the badness and smallness of the cloathing. In consequence of these complaints, inquiry was made, and a comparison was also taken of a suit of them with a suit belonging to another corps. They were found to be badly made up, and from this circumstance, joined to their being of an under size, the contract was given back to the man who had executed it for 15 years. Two things were to be considered in a contract. It might be too dear, or it might be too Mr. Windham thought that though the cheap. The inadequacy of quality and size right hon. gent, might be justified in bring was in this instance, found to be by no meansing forward the measure, he could not be counterbalanced by the lowness of the price. justified in not now proceeding in it. There was a difference between the two estimates of 19001. which surely the public could not reckon any object when put in competition with the health, warmth, and comfort of those brave men who had been wounded in their service. His lordship proceeded to read a letter and a certificate from the major of the second battalion, and from the quarter master of the battalion at the Tower, stating that the cloaths furnished by Mr. Courtnay were by no means fit for men wounded in the service, who required large and comfortable cloaths, but might be fit enough for stripplings. They were in general too small, some of them had to be cut down to join out others; 600 could not be fitted out of 1000 suits: some of those furnished by the former clothiers, were required to be issued to supply the deficiency; 200 were obliged to be returned; and when remonstrated with as to the unfitness of the cloathing, the answer by Mr. Courtnay was, that he would be a great loser by the contract. The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought the statement of this night entirely owing to the noble lord's own conduct. If he was inconvenienced he had himself alone to blame. Mr. Johnstone approved of the mode in which the business had been brought for ward. Mr. Wilberforce wished to know if the noble lord meant to say that the substance of the letters were contained in the Minutes, or only that they were referred to in them? Lord H. Petty answered the question by reading a part of the minutes. General Tarleton begged the house to consider its own dignity. If this practice of recrimination was to be perpetually resorted to; if when a charge was to be made against one party, it was answered by a counter complaint, there never would be an end to any debate in that house. He thought the subject ought to go before a committee of inquiry, without further ceremony. Mr. Huskisson read extracts of letters from various commanding officers, expressing their satisfaction with the manner in which Mr. Courtnay had executed his contract. The late ministry had written a circular letter, inviting complaints against the clothing, and the uniform answer was in its favour, instead of complaining of it. But they did not wait until these answers were received; the fact being, that the new contract was hastily closed before they had received a single answer to the pompous inquiry they had affected to set on foot, previous to the dismissal of the former contractor. ject should come forward in the present shape, more especially, as on that day, or on the next, the barons of the Courts of Exchequer in Scotland would come to a determination upon it. He passed the highest eulogium on his noble friend, and declared, that a more enlightened scholar, a more profound lawyer, a more agreeable companion, and a more perfect gentleman, never existed. He would shortly state the circumstances under which the warrant was granted, and he was sure, he should satisfy the house that what was proposed to be done, was not more than what ought to be done. In Oct. 1805, he received an inti Mr. Cochrane Johnstone said, this was One of the neatest jobs he ever heard of in his life. He was glad the house had taken up the subject of the army clothing, as it would lead to the discovery of a great many abuses in that department, and tend to better the condition of our brave defenders.mation from lord Cullen, that having spent The motion was then agreed to. a day with the Duke of Portland, at Bul[SHERIFFS DEPUTE OF SUTHERLAND, strode, his grace expressed a wish to com&C. AND LORD CULLEN'S PENSION.] municate with him (Mr. Adam) on the subMr. W. Adam rose to make his promised ject of a pension for lord Cullen for life, motion on the above subjects. He entered with a reversion to his wife. The change of into a description of the office of Sheriff administration, which soon after took place, Depute in Scotland. It was a selection of prevented the completion of this business. local jurisdiction of the highest importance, In 1806, it was natural for lord Cullen, who and one in which it was extremely necessa- had been connected with the late administrary that the duty should be performed with as tion, to bring his case again under considemuch dispatch as possible. The Shrievalties ration. He did not contend that in any case of Sutherland and Caithness were formerly it was fit to grant a pension to a Judge for united, but, in consequence of the inacces-life, but he contended that the crown should sibility of the former county, it had been have the power of doing so, and he condeemed necessary to separate them and to tended, that in cases in which a Judge was appoint a sheriff for each. This occasioned an involuntarily involved in embarrassments, it expence of only 3501. a year. Sutherland was was incumbent on the crown to endeavour to a county containing 26,000 inhabitants, and relieve him. Lord Cullen was the eldest he appealed to all who knew Scotland, whe- son of D. Cullen, one of the greatest men ther the appointment of a separate Sheriff that Scotland ever produced, and who had Depute did not stand recommended on pub-raised thereputation of the Medical School of lic grounds of advantage. He then explained the situation of the counties of Kinross and Clackmannan, neither of which had a Sheriff Depute. The Sheriff Depute of Stirling had jurisdiction in Clackmannan, and the Sheriff Depute of Fife in Kinross. In the latter county, as long as he remembered, the Sheriff Depute never did himself discharge the duty of his office, but appointed a substitute for that purpose, who, though a very respectable man, possessed no legal information. It became necessary to remedy these evils, and on public principles of utility, Sheriffs Depute were appointed for those two counties of Clackmannan and Kinross. To effect this, it became necessary to obtain the formal resignations of the Sheriffs of Fife and Stirling, who were afterwards re-appointed with their salaries.He next proceeded to the subject of the warrant for granting a pension to lord Cullen, and expressed his regret that the subVOL. IX. Edinburgh, to the height which it then stood. Dr. Cullen, however, died poor, and left a large family; the younger branches of that family were in a great measure provided for by the public; but lord Cullen, the eldest son, could not guard himself from the effect of the embarrassments which descended to him from his father, and was in consequence obliged to give up two-thirds of the revenue of his situation, to relieve himself in some degree from those embarrassments. Those circumstances were taken into consideration by the late ministers, and there was every reason to suppose that in August last the affair was completed. However owing to the official delays, the warrant for granting a pension of 4001. a year to lord Cullen for life, with a provision of 2001. a year to Mrs. Cullen, was one of the last acts of the late administration. From that period until Monday last he had heard nothing more about it. He had no idea that the warrant 3 A was for any thing else but a provision for life; he was sure lord Grenville meant it to be for life. If when the grant was produced it should appear on the face of it, that it was during pleasure, he would contend that it was an error; the very circumstance of the reversion must shew it was an error. As he had before mentioned, the Barons of the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, were at this time employed in consider ing the subject, and he deeply regretted that it had been mentioned in the house of commons, until their report had been made. As it was, however, he thought it his duty to move that an humble address be presented to his majesty, that he will be graciously pased to give directions that there be laid before the house copies of the appointments of the sheriff' depute of the county of Sutherland, and of the sheriff depute of the counties of Clackmannan and Kinross; and also of the warrant granting a pension to dord Cullen, one of the senators of the college of justice; together with copies of all representations and official correspondence relating thereto. Mr. C. Wynne defended the institution of the two new professorships. There was scarcely a college on the continent, which had not long had a professor of medical jurispru dence, and the advantages of having a distinct professor of military surgery were obvious. Mr. Cochrane Johnstone declared, that a more honest, upright, and able judge than Mr. Williamson, the Sheriff Depute of Stirling, could not exist., He happened to be with him when he received a letter from lord Spencer, requiring him to resign, pro tempore, in order that a distinct sheriff might be appointed for Clackmannan. Mr. Williamson declared to him, that such an appointment was wholly unnecessary, and exclaimed, in his Northern dialect, "Gude God, Maister Johnstone, did you ever see sic a job!" (A: laugh.) With respect to the pension granted to lord Cuilen, the reversion to Mrs. Cullen was a gross insult to the morals and feelings of the people of Scotland. Mr. R. Dundas never heard of the least necessity for the appointment of the new sheriffs. As to lord Cullen's pension, the character of that learned lord certainly stood very high; but when he was thus selected from a body of men, and shewn peculiar indulgencies, he thought it indispensible that more specific grounds should be stated: for such a measure than what had hitherto been advanced. The Lord Advocate of Scotland was de sirous, that the letters and applications of the Sheriffs Depute for these counties should be laid before the house. Without meaning to throw any imputation on the respectable individuals who had occupied the new offices, he termed their appointment an unnecessary or wanton expence. To prove Mr. Laing defended the appointment of this, he entered into a history of the sheriffs the sheriffs. The question was not, whether depute of Scotland; they were divided into the sheriffs of Stirling and Fife declared that 5 classes; each class receiving a salary pro- there was nothing to do in Clackmannan and portionate to its labour; by the new arrange- Kinross, but whether the people of Clack-1 ments, the sheriff of Sutherland, who was mannan and Kinross were satisfied with the placed in the last class but one, because no sheriffs not coming there to do any thing for peculiar difficulty attended his situation, was them. He had never understood that Jorda to receive a higher salary than some of those in Cullen was a very particular friend to the the first class. The sheriffs of Stirling and last administration, and he could not there.. Fife had, it seems, resigned, to gave an op- fore see the justice of imputing the grant portunity for the new arrangements. He which he had received to party motives. would like to know if they were not solici- Adverting to the arguments urged by a learnted to do so. With respect to the pensioned lord against the appointment of the two' granted to lord Cullen, he would not follow new professorships at Edinburgh, he observe ! the learned gent, in his detail on that subject, ed, that similar arguments might have been but he was surprised that if it was thought applied with equal force against the appoint advisable to take such a step, it was not done ment of Dr. Blair, as Regius Professor of in such a manner as to preclude the neces- the Belles Lettres; or of Dr. Walker, as sity of bringing it under the consideration of Regius Frofessor of Natural History. the house of commons. He concluded by Those appointments might as well be called some severe remarks on the creation by his jobs as the present; but he confessed he was. majesty's late ministers of two new professor- not surprised, that men who had belonged ships in the University of Edinburgh-that to an administration the most unfriendly to of Medical Jurisprudence, and that of Mili-literature that ever existed, and by whom tary Surgery, genius of every description had been left to: The Marquis of Titchfield expressed his belief that the duke of Portland was not acquainted with the particulars of the transaction which was then the subject of de pine in want-he was not surprised that | pretences. Under these circumstances, the such men should condeinn conduct so oppo- public would derive as much advantage from site to their own. the recrimination, as from the attack. The appointment of the sheriffs for Sutherland had been proposed to Mr. Pitt,but he refused to accede to the alteration. The grant of a pension during pleasure to a judge was not only dangerous to the independence of the judicature but contrary to law. He had introduced these facts to the house on a former night only to shew, that the house ought to pause before they would appoint a committee, in which those gentlemen would have preponderating influence who thought with the late ministers. bate. Mr. W. Dundas defended the appointment of the sheriffs., In Sutherland, in consequence of the distance of the residence of the sheriffs, justice was not delayed but not done. The country was 80 miles from sea to sea, 50 miles in the other direction; had a popu-a lation of 26,000 inhabitants, and ought to have a particular sheriff. Lord Reay, who had a large property in it, had intreated him for the last five years to procure that alteration, and he lamented that whilst he had the opportunity from his connexion with ministers, he had not endeavoured to accomplish so desirable an object. He had said thus much just to give a warning to the right hon gentlemen opposite, that if they meant this women's war of recrimination, for the purpose of gaining popularity, they would not find it succeed. Mr. H. Martin was extremely happy to find that he had the approbation of a right hon. gent. on the other side (Mr. Rose) whose name was so proverbial as an enemy to all jobs! That right hon gent. could, he, was well convinced, be very serviceable to the country, if he was to devote his time to an endeavour to make out discoveries of this nature, and if he had the support of parlia ment, the country would not say that this was a woman's war. He was not himself, he confessed, so capable of defending against an accusation of this sort as those who had spent 14 years in extending the power of France. But on Tuesday next all these in-, dependent gentlemen would have an oppor tunity of testifying their zeal for the detec tion of abuses, by supporting the motion of a noble lord (Cochrane) for a list of those, members who held pensions, places, &c. eibether in person or by other branches of their family. The Splicitor General for Scotland contended that the duties of the shrievalty were now as before done by deputy, and that eminent person who had been appointed sheriff of Sutherland resided in Edinburgh, and could not have given his presence in the county far the time required by act of parliament. As the matter had been brought before the house he thought it right to 6 fully, fairly, and thoroughly sifted, and therefore he moved as an amendment, That there be also laid before the house copies of all official correspondence upon the subject. Mr. Croker thought that literary merit ought to be rewarded in the usual way. He was not a friend to giving indirect rewards for direct services. The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not think the public would derive much advantage strom these discussions, but the right hon. gent. who represented them as women's war of recrimination, should not lose sight of the side from which the attack was made. He should look to those who sent forth charges of attempts to raise false cries, and wished no peculation to go to the country as their cry as if they were all purity, and their opponents the advocates of peculation. He had observed, in the late administration, that they made great professions, without any corresponding performances, and attempted to gain popularity with the public upon false Mr. Canning, in a strain of irony, lamented his ability to rise, after the very able, pres cise, and formal speech of the learned gent. However, the necessity of the new appointments of sheriffs, he confessed he did not see to be very clearly made out, neither was the term of medical jurisprudence, very accurately defined. And the matter of the pension to lord Cullen was still less satisfactorily explained. As the learned gent. had not. given him the most ample satisfaction upon the whole, he should vote in support of the motion for the production of the papers. Mr. Rose got up in great warmth and al luded to what had been said by the learned gent. (Mr. Martin.) If the hon. and learned gent., said he, thinks he can put me down by any such insinuations as he has just made, he will find himself mistaken. He says that my name is connected with jobs, I dare that bon. and learned gent. to shew the instance in any part of my life in which I was con |