called the attention of their lordships to the subject of which he had given notice yesterday. The principal points of his lordship's speech, which occupied upwards of three merce. As to the bankruptcy in finance, his noble friend (lord Grenville) had shewn, and had proved, to the conviction, and benefit, of his successors in office, and to his countrymen, that new taxes are no lon-hours in the delivery, were to the followger necessary, even for a prolonged war ing effect.—I do not mean to offer any objecon the actual state of expenditure. As to tion to the notion which has just been any failure in commerce, the accounts now made; but I rise for the purpose of stating, to be produced would give a splendid exhi- as your lordships all know it is competent bition of imports and exports, far beyond for me on this question to do, the circumwhat it had ever been in any period of stances which have led to the present situapeace or of war.Having said, in the opening tion of public affairs. I mean to explain, of his speech, that he had enjoyed the full as far as I am acquainted with them, the confidence of the late ministers, he request- causes which have brought about the change ed permission to explain that in one great which has taken place in his majesty's and essential point he had differed from councils. It is now six years since the memthem radically and most decidedly. His bers of a former administration, of which I noble friend had been apprized in an early formed a part, thought it their duty, under stage of the business, that it was his inten- similar circumstances, to ask permission of tion to oppose even the very limited measure his majesty to withdraw from their situawhich had been made the cause, or occasion, tions. This determination they carried into of the change of government; but having execution without communicating through stated that dissent, he never felt, he never any channel to the public the grounds which could feel, that alarm and anxiety which had induced them to take that step. I parothers feel, or pretend to feel, for what ticipated fully in the motives of forbearance they call the safety of the church. It had on which that conduct was founded. I am happened to him only two years ago to be far from now regretting that the change did the teller on the catholic question, when take place in that manner. their lordships divided 178 to 49. He in the recollection of all your lordships, that knew too well the consistency and honour the motives of the persons who composed of their lordships minds to have the smallest the administration to which I have alluded, particle of doubt, that the principles which were made the subject of much comment, prevailed in 1805 would equally prevail in and were greatly misrepresented in conse 1807. He sincerely lamented the misun-quence of that forbearance to which they derstanding and its consequences, which threatened to place this great empire in a state of divisions, weakness, and distractions, ill suited to the circumstances of the war, and to the tendency and unexampled dangers of the times on which we are thrown. Lord Auckland concluded by moving for several accounts of the official and real imports into and exports from Great Britain, for nine years, ending the 5th January, 1807; and also for comparative accounts of British shipping for the same period. The Earl of Westmoreland said, he did not rise to controvert the statements of the noble lord, but merely to observe, that the grounds of such a statement proved the administration of which the noble lord formed a part, did not succeed to the government of a rained country, or to dilapidated resources. The question on the noble lord's motion was put, and the accounts ordered accordingly. [CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATION.] Lord Hawkesbury moved, that the house at its rising do adjourn to Wednesday sen'night. Lord Grenville immediately rose, and But it must be adhered. On the present occasion, then, when a change of administration has taken place, not by resignation, but in consequence of the exercise of the royal prerogative, it is natural that I, who know the misrepresentations which occurred in a former instance, should wish to avoid similar imputations, by making to your lordships, and thro' you to the country, a full explanation of all the circumstances which have given rise to the existing situation of public affairs. But I have still a much stronger claim to your lordships indulgence in making this statement. It has happened that a libellous publication has already appeared, containing a false and garbled representation of the circunstances to which I allude; and here let me ask the noble lords on the other side, whether they can point out any period of the history of this country in which it ever happened that such a publication was made? I speak of the publication of the minutes of advice given to his majesty by his late ministers. That advice was given to his majesty in writing, and though it was proper that the paper should realms. I have, my lords, no complaint to make; I have only to state what is necessary for the vindication of my own character.—At the period of the change of administration, to which I have already referred, your lordships know that a great and illustrious statesman, (Mr. Pitt), to whom I never can allude but with sentiments of the most unfeigned respect, was at the head of his majesty's government. My lords, in the year 1801, it was the opinion of that illustrious statesman in which opinion I completely concurred, that large further concessions should be made to the catholics of Ireland. It was then thought expedient that a measure for that purpose should be proposed to parlia with his majesty's approbation, the consequence was the resignation of the then ministers. The result was different in the present case, for reasons which I shall presently state. I at that period thought it my duty to resign, and chearfully sacrifice all those personal considerations which may be supposed to attach to the situation of one of his majesty's ministers. My lords, I will sacrifice those considerations over and over again, upon the same principle. It is undoubtedly true, that no pledge was given to the catholics of Ireland that further concessions to them should be one of the results of the union; their consent was undoubtedly not be transferred to the persons who succeeded to the administration, in order that they might know the grounds upon which their predecessors were dismissed, it was a very extraordinary proceeding in those persons to authorize its publication. If they thought it a fit document for public discussion, either in or out of parliament, there were two ways in which they might have proceeded, in order to promote a constitutional investigation. They might have come down to parliament and stated, that improper advice had been given to the crown, and upon that statement moved an address to his majesty for the production of the paper; or they might have adopted another course. If they found upon their accession to the government. That proposed measure not meeting ment, that evil counsels had been given, they might have advised his majesty to lay those counsels before parliament, in order that those from whom they proceeded might receive the punishment they merited. But will the noble lords on the opposite side vindicate the publication of a paper of this important nature in the manner it has taken place? I must again ask them whether they can refer to any instance, in the history of the country in which any similar publication had, from party views or any other motive, ever been made? Under these circumstances, however, I could not refrain from desiring to lay before your lordships the truth of the case on this important sub-purchased by any such promise. It is well ject, which had, in consequence of the publication I have noticed, become the subject of conversation and misrepresentation in every coffee-house. For this purpose, I was induced to ask leave of his majesty to make the statement I am about to lay before your lordships; for without that permission, I should not, most anxiously as I desired to explain every circumstance connected with the important transactions that have taken place, have taken this opportunity of addressing your lordships. But my application to his majesty was received with all that kindness and tenderness to the feelings of others for which his royal mind is so eminently distinguished, and I shall ever entertain the strongest sense of gratitude for the benevolent condescension with which the permission I solicited was granted. Having now stated the grounds on which I think itwill appear that an explanation on my part was Indispensably called for, it scarcely can be necessary for me to assure your lordships, that whatever I may say in addressing you will be accompanied with every feeling of respect which is due to the sovereign of these known, however, from the speeches in parliament, upon the great question of the union, and we know that what is said in parliament, somehow or other becomes known to the public, that the understanding upon the subject certainly was, that further concessions to the catholics of Ireland, might, and ought to be a measure consequent upon the union. That such a measure was not only politic and expedient, but absolutely necessary, was the opinion, as I have already stated, of that great and illustrious statesman, Mr. Pitt; it was also the opinion of his great and illustrious rival, Mr Fox. These eminent statesmen concurred in opinion in three great measures of policy, the establishment of the sinking fund, the abolition of the African slave trade, and the necessity of further concessions to the catholics of Ire land." The first of these measures was adopted on its first proposition; the second, the abolition of the African slave trade, met with much, in my opinion, mistaken opposition, but has at length been carried. The third, that of a system of conciliation and kindness to the catholics of Ireland, remains yet to be carried into execution; but it rests upon grounds of such unavoidable necessity, that I think it is impossible for any man, after weighing on the one hand the objections which have been urged against it, and on the other the advantages which must inevitably flow from it, to resist the coming to this conclusion, that it is a measure which, for the welfare of the country, ought to be speedily adopted. It was in this view that on a former occasion I sacrificed my situation in the government; and that sacrifice I was ready to make again, being convinced that four millions of our fellow subjects in Ireland are to be governed by conciliation and kindness, and not by persecution. In consequence of circumstances which occurred in the situation of public affairs, which it is not necessary here to restate, overtures were repeatedly made to me to take a part in his majesty's councils. My answer to all such overtures was, that my sovereign might always command my services in any frame of government which might be formed, but at the same time I always explicitly declared, that I never would forego my right to state my sentiments on this question in parliament, whenever any occasion should occur which might call for such a statement. A time arrived when the Roman catholics of Ireland thought fit to represent to parliament the state of their grievances. They did me the honour to apply to me to present their Petition. [See vol. 4, p. 97.] I felt that application, my lords, to be an honour, because it was a proof of the opinion those persons entertained of my conduct and sincerity. I complied with their wishes. But here, my lords, it is proper that I should correct a misapprehension which has very generally prevailed on this subject. It is not true, as has been frequently asserted, that the consent of the Roman catholics of Ireland to the union was purchased in consequence of any promise made to them of a measure of complete conciliation; but it is certain, from the debates that took place on the Union, that it was understood that the catholic question should be fully considered, and on this ground I considered myself bound to bring their claims before your lordships. The result of the application which was made to parliament is well known. The majority against the measure, large as it was, could not be considered as precluding its revival at a future period, or as imposing any pledge on parliament not to accede to the catholic claims to the full extent in which they were then made. In a few months after I had the honour to make the application, the result of which I have mentioned, the country had the misfortune to lose the great stateman who was at the head of the existing administration. His majesty was then pleased to think that, under the circumstances in which the country was placed, I might be of use to him and to the public, and directed me to assist in forming a new government. I did form one, which, from the materials of which it was composed, and the principles on which its members agreed to act together, appeared to me best calculated for promoting the interests of the country. The sentiments of most of the persons who became members of this administration, upon the catholic question, were well known from their public declarations, and particularly in consequence of the discussion which had recently taken place on the subject. When, therefore, we were called to the councils of our sovereign, no man could suppose that we were called in any other manner than that in which ministers ought constitutionally to discharge their duty; namely, to give on all proper occasions to his majesty, conformably to the oath we had taken, full, fair, and upright counsel, and not to withhold that advice from interest, affection or any other motive. I do not make this assertion, my lords, from my own recollection only. Within these few days my sovereign has declared it to be conformable to his recollection also, and authorized me to confirm this statement, not from myself only, but from him. After what had recently happened, it will not be supposed that it could be the desire of the late administration to press the catholic question, or to revive any measure known to be painful to the feelings of a great personage, to whom every respect is due, unless the pressure of unavoidable necessity compelled us to bring it forward. We flattered ourselves, therefore, that from the character of the persons to whom the government of Ireland was entrusted, many causes of dissatisfaction in the people of that country would be diminished. The manner in which the noble person at the head of that government (the duke of Bedford) executed the laws, and the just but conciliating spirit of his administration, gave us reason to hope that the unanimity so much desited in the sister kingdom might at last be accomplished. We had but one wish, the welfare and security of the whole empire; and, by knitting together the hearts of all his majesty's subjects, we cherished the hope that this parliament. With regard to the general question, I hesitate not to declare it to be my opinion, that the Roman Catholics, by pushing forward their petition at the present moment, have acted highly injurious to their own interests, and to the interests of the empire at large. It was therefore my anxious wish, as well as that of those who acted with me, to devise some means by which the discussion of the general question in parliament might have been prevented, and nothing appeared to us better calculated for that purpose than the bill, which was intended to give to all the subjects of his majesty the right of holding every description of military employment. About four. teen years ago, the parliament of Ireland opened to the Roman catholics the army, with the exclusion only of the rank of com mander in chief, master-general of the ord nance, and general of the staff. With these exceptions, his majesty was enabled to give great object might be attained. We were induced to pursue this conduct, as well because we knew the agitation of the subject might prove painful in a high quarter, as because the recent decision of parliament had rendered it very unlikely that it could be carried, while it was probable that it would revive animosities. One of the first objects of the late administration, therefore, was to prevent, if possible, the revival of the Catholic question. In the first session of parliament our endeavours were successful; but the state of Ireland during the last year was not so satisfactory; disturbances had broken out in several districts, disturbances of that nature which this measure was particularly calculated to prevent. These commotions were, however, composed by the ordinary exercise of the civil administration of the country. Such was the love of justice and lenity which distinguished the noble duke at the head of the government of Ireland, that he carefully avoided resorting to any extra-commissions in the ariny to all his catholic ordinary measures in repressing these disturbances, and his system of conciliation had proved succesful. At the time these events occurred in Ireland, the attention of his majesty's government in this country was anxiously directed to the means of raising a great military force, which the total destruction of the power of Prussia had rendered more than ever necessary for the security of the British Empire. No measure could be so well calculated to promote that end as one which would induce the superabundant population of Ireland to enter into the army and navy, and for such a proceeding the great earl of Chatham had set an important example, when, in order to remove the disaffection of the Highlands of Scotland, then nearly in the same situation as Ireland now was, he held out inducements for the population of those districts to enlist in the army. With regard to the state of Ireland, until the wealthy yeomanry could be interested, by having opportunities of providing for the younger branches of their families, similar to those afforded to the same description of persons in this country, it was in vain to expect that they would exert their influence in recruiting for the army. Besides, those persons who have the charge of religious instruction in that country, will never, with any zeal, encourage men to enter into a service where the exercise of their worship is not protected by law. It was to remove these difficulties that the measure which had been lately withdrawn in the house of commens was introduced to the consideration of subjects in Ireland; and there was no doubt, from the construction of the act, that it opened to them the navy also, in so far as the authority of the Irish parliament could extend to that service. As this act, however, could not extend to the catholics in Great Britain, it operated as an obstruction to the removal of the military force from the one country to the other. So absurd, so incongruous a state of law, never existed in any nation in the world. Instead of asking why it is not put an end to, the question ought rather to be, how it is possible that it could have existed so long? In such a state of things, was it to be wondered that we should endeavour to apply a remedy, and when we were to propose to the catholics in every part of the empire to enter into the army or the navy, we resolved not to make that proposition upon a narrow principle, but to call them to a liberal system of service, and to open to them every rank. Here, however, another point arose, which it was necessary to meet fairly. In the year 1778 the Irish parliament thought proper to open to the Protestant dissenters in Ireland, not only the navy and the army, but all employments whatever. Therefore in 1795, when it fell to the lot of my noble friend, who was then at the head of the Irish government, to propose the admission of the catholics into the army and the navy, he had no occasion to enter into any consideration as to the situation of the dissenters. In England, however, the case is different; here dissenters are excluded from all public employments unless they take a sacramental whom I acted, had reason to suppose that test, which is contrary to the principles of the nature of the measure was fully undertheir religious faith. If we had adopted the stood, which, from my heart and soul, I Irish act of 1793 in this country, the catho- am convinced it was not. I only mean to lics would have been admitted to offices justify our characters by stating the reasons from which the protestants were excluded. which induced us to suppose that no misapLet me ask your lordships, whether such, a prehension existed. In doing this, my lords, measure would not have awakened the at- it will be necessary for me to recapitulate the tention of the protestant dissenters? And different stages of the proceedings which what answer could you have given to them, took place. The draft of the Bill was laid if they asked you to explain the reason of before the king for his approbation. That the distinction made between them and the draft contained a recital of the Irish Act catholics? Regarding the question, then, with the restriction. It then proposed that under all those points of view, I was induc- the services of catholics should be received ed to form the decided opinion that the mea- without any restriction, and no condition sure to be submitted to parliament in the required but the taking of the oath of alleform of an act, should, after reciting the giance. When this draft was submitted to danger to which the empire was exposed, his Majesty, I thought I had done every also recite the remedy by which all hearts thing on the subject which my duty required and hands might be united in warding off of me. Afterwards, however, I learned that every attempt of the inveterate foe of this difficulties were stated, and that there was a country. I am aware that much may be ex- repugnance in his majesty's mind to the pected to be said on the manner in which measure. A written answer to this effect the measure was brought forward. In the was received by his majesty's servants, and first place it may be observed, that it is the to which a representation was returned. 1 duty of all members of parliament to pro- am sure, my lords, there is no man into pose those measures which they may con- whose hands that representation may have ceive to be conducive to the welfare of the fallen, but must regard it as a most dutiful country. In the like manner it is the duty and respectful address, such as was fit to be of the members of government to submit to presented to the best of sovereigns by his his majesty such measures as they may think servants. On that representation his macalculated to promote the interests of the jesty was pleased to give orders that the bill public. If his majesty should not approve might be submitted to parliament. A disof any measure they may suggest, they have patch was immediately sent to Ireland, in then to chuse whether they will abandon | order that his majesty's consent having been that measure,, or tender their resignation to obtained, it might be communicated to the their sovereign. I need not tell you, my catholics. At the conference which took lords, that in the recent instance which has place in consequence of this proceeding beoccurred of this difference of opinion, the tween the government of Ireland and cerformer course was that which was adopted. tain persons, who possess great influence In the other case, in 1801, when a similar with the catholic body, a question was asked, measure was proposed to the king, and dis- whether the rank of general of the staff, and approved by him, the administration of that other employments, from which the cathoday thought proper to resign. In the pre-lics were excluded by the act of 1793, were sent case, however, the same result was to be laid open to them? The answer given brought about in a different manner. The on the part of his majesty's government in measure was withdrawn, and it was intend- Ireland was, that from the words of the dised to suffer it to drop entirely; but his ma- patch they understood that the catholics were jesty had, in the mean time, thought fit to to be allowed to hold every rank in the army appoint a new administration. I shall, my and the navy. The lord lieutenant's dispatch, lords, endeavour to state as briefly as possi- containing the account of this conference, ble the circumstances which gave rise to was, as all such dispatches are, communicated this event. A misapprehension of the na- to his majesty, and by him returned without ture and extent of the measure proposed ap- any comment. In answer to it, another dispears to have taken place, and the statement patch was sent to lieland, for the purpose of of that misapprehension comes from a quar-giving full information of the nature of the ter to which I give the most implicit credit. In the explanation I am about to make, I only wish to shew that I, and those with measure to the catholics, which was also laid before his majesty. This dispatch contained, copies of the clauses of the bill, and a re |