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make any comparisons that might be thought to wear an invidious aspect to the right. hon. gentleman, but he recollected that ever since he was a member of that house he was mostly in office. He had been Attorney General under Mr. Pitt, and Solicitor General under lord Sidmouth; and here he begged leave to pay his tribute of praise to the upright, pure, and honourable conduct of that noble lord, as it had been explained this night, when under the administration of Mr. Pitt, he might have had the place for life, which it was now in contemplation to confer upon the new chancellor of the exchequer, had his honourable scruples permitted him to become the instrument of lmitation to the prerogative and constitutional influence of his royal master. During the short period of the learned gentleman's opposition, the air of this side of the house did not seem to agree with him, and he was now got back to the balmy and blissful atmosphere of the Treasury Bench.The honourable member had asked, will you deprive his majesty of the learned gentleman's services in that office for which he had been thought qualified? Now really he was of opinion, that if gentlemen on the opposite side possessed any thing at all, they were swarming with chancellors of the exchequer, (a laugh.) Even a noble lord and a gallant general had lately proposed their plans of finance to the house; why not make either of them chancellors of the exchequer? Why not make the gallant general attorney-general? (a laugh.) -Among all their financiers, not one could be found to fill the office, but a gentleman who, though a very frequent speaker in the house, had never, to his knowledge, uttered one word on the subject of finance in his life.

than he did the parliamentary talents of debate. It was extremely painful to him to the right hon. gentleman; and therefore he thought the advice to his majesty, of placing him on the opposite bench, was wisely given. He could not enter into a comparison of the number of briefs, fees, and motions which fell to the professional lot of the right hon. gentleman, and which he was to abandon for his new office. But he (Mr. Sheridan), whose lot it was to vindicate his majesty's new ministers from the indiscreet zeal of some of their friends, must beg to observe, that they must be strange friends indeed who could advise the right hon. gentleman to give up his certain professional emoluments of 8 or 10,000l. a year, as alledged, to accept a place of 2,000l. in the experiment to become a tolerable chancellor of the exchequer. It was a sacrifice which the house did not wish the right hon. gentleman to make, but rather that he would keep both his emoluments and his profession; and to those who gave him a contrary counsel, well might he exclaim, Oh, save me from my friends, I can myself take care of my enemies!" with respect to the comparison made between the right hon. gentleman and lord Ashburton, the cases were totally different. That gentleman, when Mr. Dunning, was at the top of a profession, of which he was the ornament, when he was called up to the house of peers without a place; and if the duchy of Lancaster had not been assigned him, he must have had for his support a pension from the public purse. He, how ever, accepted the situation for life, on the condition of relinquishing it, so soon as the great object of his professional views was open, namely, the Chief Justiceship of the King's Bench; but, notwithstanding the sneers which had been cast this night upon that noble lord, in allusion to his parliamentary conduct, in bringing forward a resolution," that the influence of the crown had increased, was increasing, and ought to "be diminished," he thought the circumstance highly honourable to his character, and such as ought not to deprive him of the favour of his sovereign, for only wishing to curb that increasing influence of the ministers of the crown, which added nothing to the comforts, the honour, or the authority of the monarch. And he thought the crown more faithfully and honourably served by the men, such as him, who brought forward this resolution, and that they were more truly the supporters of the constitutional prerogatives of the sovereign, than the men who could advise the measure now in

"

Mr. Johnstone, in explanation, stated that he neither had no would have applied to the right honourable gentleman who had just sat down for the purpose of procuring him any appointment upon the occasion aliuded to, and for two reasons, the first, that he knew, if he had applied, the right honourable gentleman was too much engaged in providing for himself and his family, toat tend to any agency for others; and secondly, because if he had requested the right honourable gentleman to undertake the commission, he was pretty sure that, although he might promise, he would have been very apt to forget it. Now the fact was, upon the case referred to by the right honourable gentleman, simply no more than this. After stating to the right honourable gentleman the substance

of some conversations which he had with an illustrious person, now no more, (Mr. Fox) he did communicate to that right honourable gentleman, and authorize him to mention his readiness to accept of any office to which no salary should be attached, and in which he might be able to make himself useful. He remembered that he particularly mentioned Indian affairs, from his knowledge of which he stated to the right honourable gentleman his opinion that he should be able to render some service to his country. In offering to accept a situation in the conduct of those affairs without any emolument for his services, he hoped he was making a proposition which should not expose him to censure, or to the suspicion of any unworthy motives.

Mr. Sheridan, in explanation, expressed an unwillingness to fix any imputation on the honourable gentleman. As some persons wished for emoluments, so others wished for honour or patronage. It was not for him to say, of what description the honourable gentleman's ambition was. With respect to the charge of his (Mr. Sheridan) being busy in providing for himself and his family, the fact was, that his right hon. friend, who was now unhappily no more(Mr. Fox), thought, that after a service, he hoped not unmeritorious, of twenty-seven years in parliament, some provision for life ought to be made for him. It had happened rather singularly, that his right honourable friend had intimated, that the office that had been so much spoken of that night, the chancellorship of the duchy of Lancaster, should be appropriated to that provision; but, on consulting with his colleagues, his right honourable friend found that they had formed a determination not to grant for life this office, or any other, usually held during pleasure. On being informed of this determination, he entreated his right honourable friend by no means to press the matter, and thus he remained without a provision for life, and this office was reserved for the disposal of the new ministers.

Mr. Simeon thought the right of granting the office in question for life ought not to be much exercised. He thought it wrong, however, to adopt a general restriction with a view to a particular case. He regretted that the question should now be brought forward to prevent the formation of a new administration. He wished the late administration to have remained in place. But the new administration were better than none, and therefore he was unwilling to see its formation impeded. If the crown had the power

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of granting the office for life to lord Lechinere and lord Ashburton, it had also the power of granting it in the present case, and who had a right to interfere with the discretion of the crown in the exercise of that power? Mr. Fuller said, he should be always forward to support the just exercise of his majesty's prerogative; but he confessed that he must disapprove of the manner in which it was understood that this prerogative was now about to be applied, and therefore he would support this motion. For the sake of the king's own interest he would support this motion; because he did not like the idea of his majesty's giving away places for life. On the contrary, he would advise him to keep such places subject to his disposal, for those men who served him. He would recommend to the king to keep the key of the oat-chest himself, and not give it to others; for he might rely upon it, that if he did not retain the power of serving those men, they would not serve him. It would be much better for his majesty that all places for life were converted into places during pleasure than to allow any increase of the former. This he said with a view to the king's own interest; for he regarded his majesty much, for his firm attachment to the constitution. He declared, that in his opinion the names of George the Third, Nelson, and William Pitt, ought to be engraven on the hearts of all Englishmen, for the noble services they had rendered to their country; for having in fact been the saviours of our glorious constitution. As to the right honourable gentleman to whom this motion was understood particularly to refer, he declared that he could see no reasonable objection to him, compared with those who preceded him in the office to which he was said to be appointed, especially when he considered how young the man was who held that office in the late administration.

Mr. Wilberforce had the honour, he said, to have been very long acquainted with the principles and character of the right honourable gentleman to whom this motion was understood more immediately to refer, and he sincerely believed him a man of the highest disinterestedness and public spirit. With this impression strongly upon his mind, his opinion must be, that that right honourable gentleman himself would have come forward to render this debate unnecessary, if it were not that, from the manner in which a notice of the motion had. been given, the remarks which had been made the preceding night, and other cifcumstances, such a proceeding might ap

pear the effect of intimidation, than which nothing, he was persuaded, was less likely to have effect upon the mind of that right honourable gentleman. However, the motion was such as he could not hesitate to support.

for instance, such as that of lord Ashburton should occur the day following, the house itself would not regret the imposition of such a restraint? He would therefore put it to the house, whether it would not be extreme. ly rash to adopt a resolution of this nature, restraining the legitimate prerogative of the crown, without any inquiry or deliberation as to its tendency and probable consequences?

Lord Howick, denied the right hon. and learned gentleman's assertion, that this motion went to impose any improper restraint upon the royal prerogative, or that it could in any degree be considered an innovation or invasion of that prerogative. For, in point of fact, what did it propose? Why, nothing more than this, that a place should not be granted for life, which had been heretofore held only during pleasure. He was not at present disposed to enter into a discussion as to the extent of the king's prerogative; but this he had no difficulty in saying, that this prerogative did not autho

been heretofore held during pleasure. This motion, therefore, only proposed to advise his majesty not to do that which according to law he was not warranted in doing. The conduct towards the judges, in the reign of William the Third, had no reference what

The Master of the Rolls having had no opportunity of inquiring fully into the merits of the general proposition which this 'motion involved, could not think himself justified in voting for its adoption. There were, in his opinion, a variety of topics, which ought to be fully investigated before such a motion was acceded to. There were many places held for life which ought to be converted into places during pleasure, and, vice versa, there were also many places, the tenure of which ought to be left entirely to the discretion of his majesty, and of which nature the place to which this motion was understood to refer might be one; the house surely would not venture to decide without any enquiry or deliberation whatever. If the case were determined in the very hasty manner pro-rise the grant of places for life, which had posed, he was rather afraid that the public would not give the house credit for acting dispassionately, in being actuated by the motives which the advocates professed to have in view; for it would be very naturally asked, if such motives prevailed, why should a question of this nature be brought for-ever to the case now under consideration. If, ward in a hurry? When the honourable indeed, the crown could grant places of this gentlemen who supported this motion re- nature for life, why not by and by grant the probated the practice of granting for chancellorship of the exchequer itself, or the life such a place as it particularly al- lord chancellorship for life? A case of the Juded to, did they feel that they were re- latter having been so appointed had no doubt flecting on the conduct of the marquis of occurred in the person of Wolsey. But, what Rockingham and Mr. Fox, in 1782, and were the remarks of lord Coke upon that that it was a corrupt act, so to grant the subject? Why, that the principle of such an same place to lord Ashburton? But his main appointment was utterly objectionable, that objection to this motion at present, the learn-it was not legal to grant those places for life ed gentleman stated to be this, that it took which it had been heretofore usual to hold up a broad and general question upon mere during pleasure. Such, then, was the obpersonal grounds; and this he the more re-ject of this motion. It proposed only to degretted, because his right honourable friend to whom it alluded, was certainly one who gave up, it was notorious, a very high and Jucrative situation in his profession, for the purpose of serving his sovereign and his country in another department, by which act he certainly ought not to be allowed to suffer any loss: but taking a view of the proposition under discussion, upon general grounds, he would appeal to the candour and good sense of the house, whether if a case of iversally acknowledged merit should arise, to which a place of this nature ought to be given for life, the house should so limit the prerogative as to prevent his majesty from granting it; whether if a case,

clare the law to the crown, in order that no deviation from it should take place. With regard to the precedents referred to in the course of the debate, he had not had time to look into all the proceedings upon them; but in the case of lord Ashburton, he believed that the propriety of the grant made to that noble lord was at that time much disputed, and, in his opinion, very justly. For, much as he respected the merits of that great man, he certainly should not have voted for such a measure, as he could not think it was a legal grant. To the memory and character of the marquis of Rockingham, although he was too young to have had the happiness of any acquaintance with him, no one could

was

had been, the noble lord observed, ascribed to the party with whom he had the honour to act, that they pretended to comprehend all the talents of the country. If they had ever imagined themselves to be so, it would have been a most arrogant presumption indeed; but they always disclaimed any such pretensions, although it suited the purpose of newspaper libellers to persist in repeating the charge; a charge, indeed, which he, for one, took occasion, as often as opportunity served, to repel. But, without arrogating any extraordinary degree of talents to those with whom he was connected; without attempting any contrast with their opponents, he would ask, what estimate was to be formed of the ability of those honourable gentlemen who felt obliged to go to the law for a chancellor of the exchequer, and to offer him a premium for accepting the office? On this head little remained to be added to what the house had heard from an honourable member (Mr. Sharp), who had afforded such an evidence of talent, in this his first essay, as held out the most flattering promise of future eminence.-With regard to the assertion, that only one reversion had fallen in since the late administration came into power, he could assure the house, that this was a mistake, for there was a very considerable reversion which fell in in an island, and another indeed in an office over which he presided, which he did not think. proper to dispose of. Now, surely the disposition made by the lord chancellor of a particular reversion in that noble lord's gift could not be cited as an instance to contradict the assertion he advanced on a former evening relative to the general conduct of the late ministers upon the subject of reversions. The fact of the reversion alluded to in the lord chancellor's gift was not classed by the report of the committee of finance in the list of public reversions, but was always considered as a private place, subject to the sole controul of the officer by whom it had in this instance been disposed of. -Adverting to the observation of an honourable gentleman on the other side (Mr. Sturges Bourne) that he ought not to bring forward on the following day the explanation of which he had given

be more willing than he was to pay the utmost tribute of respect. Towards another distinguished member (lord Lansdowne) of that administration under which that grant took place, he felt both respect and gratitude, for to that noble lord he owed much personal kindness. But still he could not express any approbation of the grant they thought proper to sanction, either upon the grounds of constitutional principle or expediency. The right honourable and learned gentleman seemed to allude to some instances of persons being rewarded by pensions for quitting the lucrative profession of the law to engage in politics. He really never heard of any such instance. [the case of lord Grantley was mentioned across the table.] But, resumed the noble lord, that case does not apply; for that noble lord, who was Speaker of the house of commons, placed in a situation where legal knowledge was essential to the performance of his duty, and that knowledge augmented his title to the liberality of provision. Lord Ashburton, too, filled an high office in the house of lords, and was a cabinet minister. In both the cases the noble lords alluded to were not taken out of their profession, properly speak ing. But such was not the case with the right honourable gentleman referred to in the present debate. He did not mean to speak of that right honourable gentleman with any personal disrespect; but certainly he could not compare his pretensions with those of Mr. Dunning. No, they were not to be placed on the same footing, and therefore the analogy contended for could not hold. But, if the arrangement were to make the right honourable gentleman lord chancellor, he should have no objection, neither should he object to see him occupy any of the high legal offices in that house for which his abilities and habits so peculiarly fitted him; but when he saw him leaving his profession for the purpose of pursuing finance, he could not help feeling some surprise, and some thing more when it was proposed to give the right honourable gentleman a bonus for this singular transfer. Upon this point, however, he did not mean to say more, for indeed it was unnecessary after the admirable speech of his right honourable friend (Mr.notice, in the absence of those who were acSheridan), who very justly observed, that of quainted with and competent to answer him all the other departments, that of chancellor upon the subject of that explanation, the noof the exchequer was the one for which the ble lord stated. that he was glad those genright honourable gentleman seemed to be tlemen were absent; for, said he, it is one least qualified. If, however, the right ho- which I should hold it to be rather indelicate nourable gentleman chose to pursue the ca-to canvass. I shall confine myself to a statereer of politics in preference to the career of ment of the facts, which are so much misthe law, he must take it with all its risks. It represented that I should feel it to be highly

improper to suffer such misrepresentations | 93. While the supporters of the address to be further circulated, and particularly so were in the lobby, order was called, and lord to leave such misrepresentations to operate Howick addressed them as follows:-Genduring the holidays. To this resolution I tlemen; I understand, that it is intended am the more determined, and the necessity to propose to morrow, that the house should of an early explanation appears the more ob- at its rising adjourn for a much longer time vious, from a letter which was shewn me in than is usual at this period of the session, a newspaper of this morning addressed to or than I think consistent with the present lord Grenville and myself. In this letter state of affairs, or with my views of the some extracts from the minutes of the public interest. The adjournment which is council are inserted, which serve to shew to be proposed is to next Monday fortnight. that the writer had seen our minutes; but It is my intention, on the grounds I have he has so garbled them as to give a false co- mentioned, to oppose that motion, and to lour to the whole transaction. I will appeal, propose by way of amendment, unless, as then, to the candour of those who hear me, I hope, it may be proposed by somebody whether I should allow such misrepresenta- else, that no longer adjournment should tion to go unanswered; whether by post- take place than till Monday se'nnight at farponing the answer, I should suffer the mis- thest. As there will certainly be a division representation to do mischief; whether it upon this question, and in all probability be not more becoming in me to state here, in an early one, I hope Gentlemen will feel the the proper constitutional place, the real cir. propriety of a full and early attendance.cumstances of the case; or, whether the (a loud cry of hear, hear.) On the re-adhonourable gentleman would have me con- mission of strangers, we found that the addescend to answer the writer in a newspa- dress had been ordered to be carried up by per? I shall upon this explanation trust to such members of that house who were of the candour of the house, and to the justice his Majesty's privy council, of my country, for the vindication of that line of conduct, which in concert with my colleagues, I have felt it my duty to pursue. Mr. Sturges Bourne, in explanation, said, he had expressed some surprise that the noble lord should think of bringing forward his explanation in the absence of those who alone could know on that side of the house, the circumstances to which the noble lord would have to advert. The noble lord would not suppose, surely, that he had any thing to do with the publication alluded to by the noble lord. He assured him he knew nothing of it.

General Graham supported the motion. He had for many years acted with Mr. Pitt, and generally of course with the gentlemen on the other side,. particularly during the last parliament, when such proceedings had taken place against a noble viscount, to whom he had the honour to be related (lord Melville,) as were by their violence and injustice a disgrace to the Journals of the house. He regretted sincerely the dismissal of the late administration, and particularly as they were succeeded by men who from their conduct in abandoning the government on the death of Mr. Pitt, from acknowledged incapacity to conduct it, left that on record which furnished an evidence of their present presumption.-The question being then loudly called for, a division took place: when there appeared for the address 208; against it 115; majority

[MR. PALMER'S PETITION.] A petition of John Palmer Esq. of the city of Bath was brought up, and read; setting forth, "that the petitioner having, in common with other subjects of this kingdom experienced great inconvenience from the tedious, irregu lar, and insecure mode of correspondence by the General Post, and having had frequent occasions to remark great defects in the establishments of the Post Office, which had become a matter of universal complaint, he was induced to give much serious consideration to a grievance of such magnitude, and was ultimately convinced that improvements might be made so as not only to effect a more speedy, regular, and secure conveyance for letters throughout the Kingdom, but likewise be the means of providing the same advantages for property and travellers, and at the same time of creating and supporting a gradual, and ultimately a very considerable, increase to the revenue, derivable from the Post Office, which, instead of keeping pace with the increasing commerce and opulence of the country, had (in consequence of the defects before alluded to) been long in a state of stagnation, if not of actual decrease; and that in the spring of 1782, the petitioner having arranged the general outline of his proposed reform, and connected with it such an increased rate of postage, with a restriction on franking, as appeared adviseable at the commencement, he communicated the same to the right he