Mr. BATHRICK. In estimating for the sum that will be required for 1914 to pay for furniture, are you not guided by some detail respecting the furniture that may be required, are you not informed that certain furniture is wearing out?

Admiral STANFORD. New buildings are erected and estimates are made on the kind and character of furniture required in detail. In estimating the amount which will be required under that subtitle we are guided very largely by the total amount which was expended the year before. The expenditures recently have been materially greater than heretofore under that item because of the tendency to improve the lavatory and toilet facilities at the yards, to provide better accommodations for the men for the care of their clothing, steel lockers in which they can place their clothes when they come in and keep their overalls when they go out at night. Heretofore the purchase of such lockers and facilities has been very largely made with funds of the manufacturing divisions. Under the present method of cost keeping and accounting Yards and Docks purchases all such equipment as required by law, and it is almost a weekly occurrence to have a request come in for 200, 300, or a large number of these steel lockers. The replacement of furniture is not reported in advance of the need. For instance, an officer thinks that his bureau is worn out and is not fit for further use and requests that a survey be held. A board of officers is appointed for that purpose, or an officer, as handled at the present time, who finds that the bureau was purchased at such a date, cost so much money, that it has not been subject to abuse, that it has been worn out in the service, and recommends the replacement of the item. Each year we enter into a contract, after advertisement, for bureaus, tables, chairs, carpets, and various items of furniture required particularly for quarters. When that survey comes to us, approving the removal of the item, the bureau authorizes replacement from the current contract. The contract is based upon carefully prepared specifications which give a superior article, superior in that it is durable, not fancy, but well proportioned, well made, and eminently suitable for the use proposed.

Mr. BATHRICK. This survey is made by these officers whose duty it is to inspect; they are really inspectors?

Admiral STANFORD. They inspect, determine responsibility in case of defects, decide if repairs are warranted, and appraise.

Mr. BATHRICK. They make an appraisal of this item?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes; and recommend whether the item shall go to the dump or be sold or repaired.

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Mr. BATHRICK. In order to assist them in determining how much money will be needed?

Admiral STANFORD. Not for that particular item. The bureau has no idea as to the requests that will be received from the New York Navy Yard, for example, during the coming year for furniture, except as guided by the requests received last year. It may be that the New York yard will ask for more furniture than last year, but if so the chances are that the Mare Island or some other navy yard will ask for less, and the average is held pretty nearly constant.

Mr. BATHRICK. The strange part of it is that seldom, if ever, in these appropriations is there ever any considerable unexpended balance. It seems to me that these guesses and these estimates are nothing more than guesses based upon the needs of last year, and that is a pretty long guess, are always equaled by the expenditures during the year. I have heard the question asked if there was any unexpended balance, and I remember no case where there was any considerable unexpended balance.

Admiral STANFORD. The current appropriations, as a rule, are pretty closely apportioned by experience to the actual needs, and if there is some sum remaining near the end of the year that is unexpended, there is a crane that should be repaired, or there are buildings or other legitimate expenditures that are made in order to utilize the balance. It is true the balance is utilized. It is given for that purpose, and we are endeavoring to keep the property in a condition of repair which is consistent with good business management. The fund is not larger than is needed; otherwise we would say so and you would have a balance available before making the appropriation. It takes all the money we get to accomplish the results that are demanded.

Mr. BATHRICK. Have you ever considered any method that would be practically workable by which the items in the surveys could be presented to the committee?

Admiral STANFORD. They can all be presented to the committee, if you wish.

Mr. BATHRICK. They are in a degree itemized?

Admiral STANFORD. As a rule they are very much itemized, stating the original cost, if it is obtainable, the length of time that the article has been in the service, as to whether it has been abused or not, whether it is in condition for repair, or whether it is absolutely worn out and should be considered as waste, or whether the condition of the item does not warrant repair, but does have some small value which would warrant its sale at the public sales, which are arranged occasionally.

Mr. ROBERTS. I would like to ask you, Admiral, whether the estimates which you sent to the Secretary were allowed?

Admiral STANFORD. They were not entirely.

Mr. ROBERTS. Did you allow all the estimates which were sent to you from the yards?

Admiral STANFORD. We did not.

Mr. ROBERTS. The estimates come into the bureau from the yards and you go through them and cut out certain items, and then you make up your estimates and send them to the Secretary, and he goes. through them and cuts out items and perhaps reduces the amount, so what we get finally is the result of this pruning in the department?

Admiral STANFORD. The items are very materially reduced from the originals presented. This year the estimates were reviewed by a board consisting of the director of navy yards, Capt. Straus, and myself. Capt. Straus was then connected with the office of the aid for material. The director of navy yards and Capt. Straus especially considered the military need for the additions, particularly

Mr. ROBERTS (interposing). Instead of these estimates being padded they have been pruned?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir. In submitting estimates an honest endeavor is made to give the amount which is considered necessary for the item. The estimates are not doubled with the idea of having them cut in two, but are increased only such percentage as is neces sary to insure the satisfactory and proper accomplishment of the result.

Referring to the matter of maintenance, we have returns under this appropriation under thirty-odd subheads, of which 'Furniture" is one, and there can be presented for the committee's consideration the expenditures which have been made during the past year under each one of these subheads if you wish; that will give you an idea of the relative importance of the different subheads. Furniture is comparatively an insignificant item; less than $32,000 were spent under this head in 1912. Of course, it is a good many thousand dollars, but as compared with the total amount it is not very large. If you wish to further review that account, we could give it to you more in detail, but I am inclined to believe, when you see the general division which we can present to you very readily, you will not feel that there is an undue amount paid for furniture.

Mr. BATHRICK. On page 53 this appropriation asked for is grouped under five heads. You say there are 30 heads of classification?

Admiral STANFORD. There are 31 subheads, in order that the bureau may properly determine the propriety of the expenditures and in order that proper estimates may be prepared for next year's requirements.

Mr. BATHRICK. There are four heads given in the bill presented to the committee "Labor," "Material," "Public bills," and "Miscellaneous"?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATHRICK. Those do not in any sense elucidate the items that are expected to be purchased or paid for in any detail whatever. If that table was given under the thirty-odd heads, do you not think that it would be clearer to the committee?

Admiral STANFORD. I think it would. It would be a voluminous statement, and it might be more in detail than you care to have it. This detail you are entirely welcome to.

Mr. Foss. Admiral, you spoke of the director of navy yards. That is a new position in the Navy Department?

Admiral STANFORD. It is one which was created about one year ago. Mr. Foss. There is no authority of law for it?

Admiral STANFORD. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Foss. How is he appointed?

Admiral STANFORD. He is designated by the Secretary.

Mr. Foss. Under a regulation?

Admiral STANFORD. The regulations as now framed specify his duties and his functions.

Mr. Foss. Who is he?

Admiral STANFORD. Admiral Willits is the director of navy yards, and has been since the office was first established, but he is to be relieved on January by Capt. Bryan, who is now on duty at the Philadelphia Navy Yard.

Mr. Foss. He will have served less than a year?

Admiral STANFORD. About 13 months.

Mr. Foss. Is he to retire?

Admiral STANFORD. He is to retire in March. Why he is relieved before that time, I do not know.

Mr. Foss. Has he had experience in navy-yard management before?

Admiral STANFORD. He is an Engineer officer.

Mr. Foss. Has he been in charge of any navy yard?

Admiral STANFORD. I think his last engineering duty was as Engineer officer at the Norfolk yard. I do not know when he was on duty there.

Mr. HOBSON. Which Bryan?

Admiral STANFORD. Benjamin C. Bryan.

Mr. Foss. Has Admiral Willits ever made any special study of navy-yard administration?

Admiral STANFORD. Together with Capt. Theiss he was sent abroad by the Secretary of the Navy in order to study the systems that are used in the foreign shipbuilding yards.

Mr. Foss. Prior to that time had he made any special study?
Admiral STANFORD. I don't know.

Mr. Foss. What are his duties as director of navy yards? Is he over you?

Admiral STANFORD. No; his particular duties are in connection with the labor question and the methods to be followed by the manufacturing divisions in planning and arranging their work and in conducting it, in recommending the consolidations that shall be made of shops, the utilization of buildings, particular buildings which shall be assigned for special work, and in general he is the director of the general operations of the navy yards.

Mr. Foss. Does he go around and visit the yards?

Admiral STANFORD. Frequently. He has introduced a system of shop management at the Norfolk Navy Yard. I think it is on the Vickers plan, a system used by one of the shipbuilding concerns in England.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Was that the system that the workmen there objected to and complained about a year ago?

Admiral STANFORD. Wherein the Vickers system differs from the others I am unable to state. It is not my impression that it is identical with the Taylor system, and to the best of my knowledge the men at the Norfolk Navy Yard have raised no objection to following it.

Mr. BUCHANAN. They raised some objection to some method or system?

Admiral STANFORD. I have not heard any adverse comments from that yard lately as to the conditions regulating the workmen.

Mr. BUCHANAN. You spoke a few moments ago, maybe I did not understand you, of the surplus being used in repairing cranes.