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COSTS OF SHIPS.

Table showing expenditures for repairs and alterations on the vessels named below for the various fiscal years indicated.

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Mr. ROBERTS. What is this work here, "Installation of torpedo tubes"?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. We are trying to get a longer torpedo tube, in order that we may use a more efficient torpedo.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is not a fair thing to be charged in as repairs for submarines.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. That is an alteration, but the total of expenditures represents both repairs and alterations.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is a different use from which it was originally intended.

Mr. BUTLER. It is not for anything different in the ships; it is to improve its efficiency.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes; the same as the $90,000 for the new conning tower on the North Dakota.

Mr. ROBERTS. So that the large amount you paid in here, $100,000, is to cover the deterioration of the submarine?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. No; not at all.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you this question: Suppose you had to renew the boilers of the North Dakota and you had to renew the storage batteries of a submarine. What relation to the total cost of the ship would the boilers of the North Dakota bear, and what relation to the total cost of the submarine would the batteries bear? Wouldn't it be about the same relative proportion?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. The North Dakota cost, for hull and machinery, $4,446,584, and to reboiler her would cost $230,000. The C class of submarines averaged $285,000 each, and to renew their batteries it would cost $40,000 each. The North Dakota cost about nineteen times as much as her boilers; the C submarines cost about seven times as much as their batteries.

Mr. ROBERTS. Then the submarines are not so expensive in proportion with other classes of ships, are they?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. What I wanted to say in regard to submarines being rather delicate vessels is that it is peculiar work that they are engaged in, under-water work and surface work, alternately, and it tests the machinery to the utmost. A storage battery is a delicate proposition. When I was in charge of the wireless stations on the New England coast, I used to make them report to me every morning the specific gravity. It is really a laboratory proposition. Now, we are all learning from our experience with submarines, and we will learn to prolong the life of the batteries. Then, what I wanted to emphasize is this: We want to be rather indulgent toward the submarines, because they have not had any serious accidents so far. We have not been afflicted as have other services, so we ought to do everything we can for our submarines. The department has made an important recommendation for a submarine testing dock.

Mr. Foss. Aren't they laid up a good deal?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. These eight have been in use constantly. Thirteen of them went through the whole engineering and target competitions of 1911 to 1912.

Mr. Foss. How many are there that need new batteries?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Eight.

Mr. Foss. How many have we all told, either in commission or not?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. There are 10 in commission on the Atlantic coast and 5 in reserve.

Mr. ROBERTS. Are there some on the Pacific coast in commission? Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes; 3 on the Pacific and 4 in the Philippines.

Mr. ROBERTS. My recollection is that there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 25, if not more, in use.

The CHAIRMAN. My recollection is that the total number is nearly 50, building and in use, and, I think, it is thirty odd that are completed

Capt. WINTERHALTER. There are 22 in commission, counting those in commission in reserve. Forty-seven altogether have been authorized.

The CHAIRMAN. Those 22 are in commission where?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. They are distributed among the Atlantic, Pacific, and China stations. On the Atlantic are the C-2, C-3, C-4, C-5, D-1, D-2, D-3, E-1, E-2. and G-1; and in reserve the A-1, A-3, A-5, B-1, and C-1. Out on the China station we have A-7, A-2, A-4, and A-6. On the Pacific coast the torpedo submarine group is F-1, F-2, F-3.

Mr. BUTLER. Why do you use those initials?

Mr. ROBERTS. They have changed the system. They do not name them any more now. They are all numbered. Each letter indicates a type or group.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes. The L type, for instance, is just coming in.

Mr. BUTLER. That indicates just the different type?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes. Then on the Atlantic coast we have C-5, C-2, C-3, C-4; also, E-1, D-1, D-2, D-3, and E-2. They have all been actively engaged during the year in maneuvers and developing a system of tactics.

Mr. ROBERTS. What are these "side plates"?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. That is a plate that keeps them from straining when alongside their tender or a wharf in rough water. Mr. ROBERTS. Sort of a fender plate?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. If you will turn to the tables here in the book, you will find built and now building 47. Then we have completed and in commission, up to the first of last June, thirty-odd. I have not counted the number.

Mr. ROBERTS. All of that number are not in commission?

The CHAIRMAN. No; but they have been in commission. We have built and are building that number-47. Admiral Cone stated, in reference to these batteries:

There is one other thing that part of this money is needed for, and that is the submarine-boat batteries. The submarine is probably the most expensive type of ship that we have to maintain, due largely to the cost and the deterioration of their storage batteries. All that comes out of this equipment appropriation. That is one thing you gentlemen, I think, will have to expect in the future as you appropriate for a number of submarine boats, that the annual expenditure for these storage batteries is large, as the owner of an electric automobile knows. Storage batteries cost about $40,000 apiece.

I was under the impression that the life of a storage battery was something like four or five years.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Under usual service conditions the life of the present type of batteries is about four and one-half years.

Mr. Foss. I was under the impression, as you stated, that the life of a storage battery was something like four to five years.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. From experience, as shown by the tables given, it would seem that the life of battery in these eight boats was a little over four years.

Mr. ROBERTS. My recollection is that you stated it was four or five years, and that they made them live longer in the Navy.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. You can not run a submarine submerged without a storage battery. The French for the last 12 years have been trying to perfect an oil engine that will perform under water. Mr. Foss. Haven't they succeeded in doing that?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. No; nor has anyone else.

Mr. Foss. I have understood that an oil engine was being developed that would permit it to run under water.

Capt. WINTERHALTER. I do not think so.

Mr. Foss. Admiral Cone says, "We have eight boats coming up for the renewal of batteries, and that will cost at least $320,000."

Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes; when we say $320,000 there we mean the maximum possible cost for renewing all the batteries, but we do not intend to spend more than is really needed. And in one or two cases I think it will be $15,000, but this will be for submarines of the A and B classes, which were among the first built and which have a battery only half the size of the batteries of the C and D classes now under discussion before the committee.

Mr. BUTLER. Is there anything on the submarine that really needs particular attention?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. We have had considerable trouble with the engines, especially with those of the E class. There has also been considerable difficulty with the previous engines of the C and D classes. However, the C and D class engines were large gasoline engines of a new type; likewise the engines of the E class were Diesel engines, which were a new development. However, the engines of the F class, improved somewhat as a result of experience of the builders of the E class, are giving very good satisfaction.

Mr. ROBERTS. Is the Diesel engine the same as the Nuremberg? Capt. WINTERHALTER. Yes; there are several internal-combustion engines of the Diesel type. There is the Junkers, for cheap lowgrade oils, which is really a very promising engine on the Diesel principle. What we should like to see is the development of some reliable motive power for underwater work. In other words, we are stopped right now in the development of the submarine from the inability to get a speed under water which would be required for an attack against a hostile fleet. With a speed of 10 knots, which can only be maintained for one hour, it is absolutely impracticable to take the offensive with a submarine against battleships in a sea engagement on account of the disparity of speeds of the submarine fleet and the battleship fleet. It would be necessary for the submarine to await an opportunity which would occur only in case the battleship fleet happened to run into a flotilla of submarines submerged. Mr. Foss. How fast do they go under water now?

Capt. WINTERHALTER. The speed under water now is practically what it was in 1907; that is, 10 knots for one hour and 8 knots for

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