all the bureau chiefs and aids is held on the first Monday of each month in the Secretary's office.

The chiefs of bureaus have consistently endeavored to carry out the various details of the organization and have been actuated by the spirit of efficiency and economy that has pervaded the present administration. I desire to accord to them and to the aids full measure of praise for all that has been accomplished through their efficient cooperation.

Last year I recommended that the four aids be legalized, and now renew this recommendation. The usefulness of the aids in securing economical results and good administration in the Navy Department is beyond question.

When the organization, including the aids, was first brought into execution there was a suspicion, and a natural one, that I was trying to build up a staff, but it differs from a staff, and they have not built up bureaus around them. They have none of the necessary obligations of a bureau chief nor his required attention to detail. They have no executive authority; they occupy merely an advisory capacity to the Secretary. They become familiar, and thoroughly so, with what goes on in their divisions. Now, a secretary, who is invariably a civilian, is in no position to decide questions which require expert and technical knowledge. If the matter was one simply referring to one bureau, he could get the advice of the bureau chief; but in many instances it requires consideration from the material point of view of several bureaus. It involves sometimes the question of inspection; it sometimes affects personnel. Again, it is important that the question should be considered from the military point of view as regards the operation of the vessels in the Navy. With the council of aids you get a complete and experienced body of men who are trained and thoroughly informed as to their decisions. They serve as expert advisers to the Secretary, and daily bring information to him which in the natural course of events would not come to him.

The bureau chiefs have their bureaus, which require their active attention, positions they fill with marked ability, but they can not be spending their time serving in council, as they must give their attention to the details of their bureaus. The bureau chiefs have access to the Secretary of the Navy at any and all times. Frequently I send for a bureau chief or several of them, and discuss things with them. To show you how it works, the aids meet every morning and go over the questions required to come before the Secretary daily. The Secretary assembles the council every week, and he meets the bureau chiefs jointly with the council monthly, and incidentally he meets the bureau chiefs and aids at all times, but they also have fixed times for meetings, and these meetings are of incalculable value, because it brings them together in a way they have never been brought before. I think there is an esprit du corps in the department which has not existed before to the same extent--not due to me individually, but due to the fact that they have been coming in contact with each other and found what each other's requirements are and can make allowance and have a more complete understanding of what is going on in the different bureaus. Formerly, when I first took office, a paper would come up with an indorsement.

That indorsement would receive the signature of the bureau chief, then it would be sent to the other bureau, and he would study it and put on an indorsement, and then it would come up to the Secretary, and then it would go back to the other bureau and so it would go

on for months sometimes. Now, it is settled with one indorsement, because if it is a matter of material which affects several bureaus, or, as is more apt to be the case, construction and engineering jointly, they meet with the aid for material and discuss the case, he acting as a referee, and in no instance have they had to come to me to settle the matter, because they could not agree; they have always agreed beforehand. In the same way it is a great advantage in personnel to have an aid for personnel who looks after the whole Navy in connection with the qualifications of the officers, and he also has the matter of the Medical Corps, the Marine Corps, and the Judge Advocate General. Then the aid for operations is a position so important that I think you can fully realize that there should be a man studying strategy in connection with the War College and the joint board. He acts as advisor to the Secretary as regards the fleet and its movements, and from a military point of view of everything that is afloat. The aid for inspection has been invaluable to the Secretary. He has established a system of reports direct to the Secretary as regards the repairs ashore and afloat that has resulted in economy, because it has saved the Navy from going into the repair of such ships which, after they have been completed, have not a military value commensurate with the amount of money expended. Heretofore each department would agree on what the expense was, make an estimate, and then go ahead, and the record which I have shown in one report will give clear figures as to the amount of money that has been spent on ships in the past, the criticism being as to the method which allowed it and brought it about. After estimates are made for repairs they are considered by the aid for inspection as to whether they are of sufficient value to the Navy to warrant spending so much money, and it also comes up in council, and the aids for operation, material, personnel, and inspection go over it and make a report to the Secretary.

Mr. HOBSON. In the final shaking down of the system, what do you think should be the position of the director of navy yards? Ought he to be on the level with an aid or to be on the level with a chief of bureau, or to be even subordinate and not level to both?

Secretary MEYER. When I went over to inspect the English yards I found that they had a system there with a central office to which anything in connection with the navy yards in the way of construction or repair, alteration, or methods of doing business, could be referred to at the Admiralty. There should be one individual who is familiar with the industrial organization and equipment of navy yards in comparison with other navy yards, and if the commandant of the yard wanted to get information as to how certain work was being done or how certain repairs were being made, or what had worked satisfactorily in the way of power or anything else, or in the buildings required

Mr. HOBSON (interposing). In other navy yards?

Secretary MEYER. In other navy yards, so there would be a fountain head, as it were. It would not require sending to all of the different bureaus, and it is a saving of time to have one central individual to whom that could be referred.

Mr. HOBSON. Just where do you locate him in the department organization?

Secretary MEYER. He is in the division of material.

Mr. HOBSON. Do you think that that should be his status normally? Secretary MEYER. That was my opinion. It also keeps the aid for material familiar with navy-yard work. It is important that the aid for material be cognizant with material divisions of navy yards as well as of the department.

Mr. HOBSON, The director is junior in rank to the commandant and the chiefs of bureau that refer to him?

Secretary MEYER. He is junior to the commandants but senior to the chiefs of bureaus.

Mr. HOBSON. Does he act in the name of the Assistant Secretary, or does he sign himself?

Secretary MEYER. The Secretary and the Assistant Secretary sign. Mr. HOBSON. He is an aid to the Assistant Secretary?

Secretary MEYER. He was practically an aid to the Assistant Secretary, but he is now in the division of material.

Mr. HOBSON. In case this were finally incorporated in legislation, would you advise the rank of vice admiral for the aids?

Secretary MEYER. I have not so advised.

Mr. BATHRICK. What rank do they have now?

Secretary MEYER. They are not established by law. Under the law the Secretary of the Navy is allowed to assign officers to their work. Mr. HOBSON. If you were to assign a captain to be one of the aids, and I can readily see why you might want a captain, he would be practically commanding rear admirals, the chief of bureaus?

Secretary MEYER. He has no executive authority. It is not intended that they should have authority. They do not issue any orders or sign any papers.

Mr. ROBERTS. They simply advise the Secretary.

Mr. HOBSON. Under those conditions, would you advise any legisla tion on the subject?

Secretary MEYER. Well, of course

Mr. HOBSON (interposing). Or leave the question of the aids entirely to each individual Secretary?

Secretary MEYER. I think the Secretary always has had and will have the power of selecting who shall be around him.

Mr. HOBSON. If you came to make it a permanent part of the organization of the Navy Department, what would be their status in law? In other words, will you put in writing, if you can, the legis lation that you recommend, and incorporate it in the hearings? Secretary MEYER. Here is the proposed wording:

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled. That there shall be in the Department of the Navy an aid for the fleet, an aid for personnel, an aid for material, and an aid for inspections. Said aids shall be appointed by the Secretary of the Navy, with the approval of the President, from officers of the line of the Navy not below the rank of captain, and shall have while holding such appointments the rank, pay, and allowances of rear admirals, first nine. Said aids shall serve as advisers to the Secretary of the Navy and shall exercise no executive authority as such. The provisions of section 179 of the Revised Statutes of the United States are so far modified that the President may designate any one of the aforementioned aids to perform the duties of the Secretary of the Navy during the sickness or absence of the Secretary of the Navy and of the Assistant Secretary of the Navy.

I think the chances are that a rear admiral would be senior to the heads of the bureau, and the question of precedence in that respect would cover it.

Mr. HOBSON. Would you recommend any lowering or subordination of the bureaus?

Secretary MEYER. No, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. By law or otherwise?

Secretary MEYER. No, sir.

Mr. BATHRICK. If it was made a law that the Secretary of the Navy should have these aids, would that preclude his privilege of selection when he came into office?

Secretary MEYER. No, sir. He selects the bureau chiefs now. The bureau chiefs are confirmed by the Senate.

Mr. HOBSON. Could you put in the record your recommendation of the reassignment of duties of the various bureaus, if you think any should be made?

Secretary MEYER. Yes, sir; especially the Bureau of Equipment.

Coal and its transportation, to Supplies and Accounts, with certain other minor matters; electric generators and accessories, electrical signal apparatus, and wireless-telegraph outfits, to the Bureau of Steam Engineering; chain and anchor manufacture, rope making and rigging of wire rope, canvas work, galleys and fittings, and flags and bunting, to Bureau of Construction and Repair; and the Naval Observatory, Hydrographic Office, and Compass Office, to the Bureau of Navigation.

Mr. ROBERTS. You are still of the opinion, Mr. Secretary, that the Bureau of Equipment should be abolished?

Secretary MEYER. Absolutely.

Mr. HOBSON. And also something, not in the form of a long bill, on the principle of the reorganization of the personnel.

Secretary MEYER. In the reorganization of the personnel the most important features are:

(a) A determination of the number of officers needed, based on the tonnage, the number to be estimated yearly by the department and the final number to be fixed by the committee.

(b) The arrangement of these numbers in the proper proportion in the several grades.

(c) The time each officer should remain in each grade.

(d) The age at which each officer should be promoted.

These four features form the basis of any scheme of reorganization. To attain the above results some method of elimination is inevitable. "Selection out," as proposed in the department's bill, will accomplish it with the least harm to the individual. "Selection up" is the only other method, which means an age retirement in each grade. This method opens the door to favoritism and is not looked upon with favor in the service.

Amalgamation is not a vital point in the reorganization, but it will make for efficiency and should be considered.

The bill proposed by the department is not long when one considers that it takes up the whole question of a reorganization of the entire Navy personnel, including the Marine Corps.

Mr. ROBERTS. You still believe that the Bureau of Equipment should be abolished whether the system of aids is maintained or not? Secretary MEYER. Absolutely. We are at a great disadvantage in having to hold on to the Bureau of Equipment. It makes double work. It has no bureau chief, and the work of the bureau is assigned to various bureaus, but we are keeping the accounts separately.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, you said that there was something in the report that you desired to mention?

Secretary MEYER. Yes, sir. I want to say that what we have been striving for in the past is the highest possible efficiency and preparedness for war, and that we have kept as our goal and as our aim. I believe you can further that by the establishment of a council of defense, and I have so stated in my annual report on page 5. I have said:

In order to have success, there must be efficiency. To have efficiency, there must be a definite policy; to bring about a definite policy, there must be cooperation and coordination of Congress, the Army, and the Navy. To obtain this cooperation, there must be an intelligent understanding between the legislative and the executive authorities.

Then I state what the proposed council of national defense is. I hope that the committee will report that measure as a separate bill and not have it in the appropriation bill, so that it can be ruled out on a point of order.

The CHAIRMAN. It has been reported for a number of months and is on the calendar.

Secretary MEYER. I saw that it was reported in the Senate.

Mr. HOBSON. We have it on the calendar awaiting an opportunity. In fact, I am trying to get a special rule from the Rules Committee to let us consider it.

Secretary MEYER. As regards the Bureau of Equipment, I state in my annual report:

The present method of handling the appropriations formerly under the cognizance of the Bureau of Equipment is most illogical and unbusinesslike.

The books of the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts are kept open for two prior fiscal years, and under the present distribution of the duties of the Bureau of Equipment among the various bureaus it is necessary to maintain accounts under each bureau, a total of 40 accounts. This number can be reduced over half if the bureau is abolished and a clean appropriation made.

Then I state in my report how, I believe, the duties should be divided.

To effect the principal changes found necessary it is recommended that the Bureau of Equipment be abolished, and that the Secretary be authorized to distribute its duties among other bureaus.

The department wishes to distribute the duties of the Bureau of Equipment as follows: Coal and its transportation to Supplies and Accounts, with certain other minor matters; electric generators and accessories, electrical signal ap paratus, and wireless-telegraph outfits, to the Bureau of Steam Engineering; chain and anchor manufacture, rope making and rigging of wire or rope, canvas work, galleys and fittings, and flags and bunting, to Bureau of Construction and Repair; and the Naval Observatory, Hydrographic Office, and Compass Office, to the Bureau of Navigation. It has been recommended by the preceding Secre taries, the only question at issue being the assignment of equipment electricity. There is no evidence that another bureau for electrical work will be required, as the electrical duties of the old Bureau of Equipment have been satisfactorily handled for three years by the Bureau of Steam Engineering. Further, the tendency is to consolidate whatever possible so as to increase economy and efficiency.

The office space required by the Navy Department is not met by the building, but if the new State Department is built, as projected, then the present State, Army and Navy Building should be divided between the Army and the Navy, and we have stated what our needs. are in the way of space.