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Col. MCCAWLEY. Yes, sir; I can get it from the Navy Department. The CHAIRMAN. What is the relative proportion of marines and prisoners?

Col. MCCAWLEY. There are about 125 prisoners. The prisoners are taken out in working parties, and the marines are required to go with them, and it is necessary to have a sufficient force of marines to go around with the various working parties in order to safeguard the prisoners.

The CHAIRMAN. What do they do?

Col. MCCAWLEY. They work around the yard, keep it clean and in condition. It saves the employment of labor for that purpose and also keeps the prisoners in good health.

The CHAIRMAN. Does it take 100 marines to guard 125 men?

Col. MCCAWLEY. About that number. The prisoners are worked in little gangs of about eight prisoners with one marine in charge of the eight men. They are scattered all over the navy yard. A better proportion would be one guard to four prisoners.

The CHAIRMAN. What percentage of efficient work do you get out of a prisoner as compared with free labor?

Col. MCCAWLEY. I am unable to state, sir. The Marine Corps has nothing to do with the control of the prisoners except to furnish the service of guards at the various places. The control of prisons and prisoners is all under the Judge Advocate General of the Navy, and the strength of the detachment is by order of the Navy Department, and the Marine Corps has only to obey. It should be remembered that in addition to guarding the prisoners, men are required for various extra and special details, sick, on furlough, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand. It looks to me like you had an immense expense account for guarding that number of men, and that the cost of guarding them was as much almost as the wages would be if the work was done by free labor?

Col. MCCAWLEY. It is not so much that, Mr. Chairman. It is a question of the health of the prisoners. Instead of keeping them confined in these prisons continuously they are taken out and given fresh air and employment, and that preserves their health. I think that is a very good system.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is true in that yard, because they have not any exercise ward, as they have in connection with most prisons, where a man can stand on the wall and watch one man or 100 men taking exercise.

The CHAIRMAN. How many prisons have we in the Navy?

Mr. ROBERTS. There is a prison at Portsmouth and two ships there now with prisoners on them. We have a prison in Boston. I think there is a prison of more or less extent at Mare Island. I do not know of any other. We have a little guardhouse at all of the navy yards. Col. MCCAWLEY. They have now established at two stations what are called disciplinary barracks, one at Port Royal, S. C., and another one on Puget Sound, at Bremerton.

Mr. ROBERTS. Colonel, you were speaking about your quarters, $48,000?

Col. MCCAWLEY. The department cut the estimate from $75,000 to $48,000.

The CHAIRMAN. $84,000.

Col. MCCAWLEY. That amount was the sum named in the original estimates for 1913, submitted in 1911, but was cut to $48,000 by the department. In submitting the estimates this year for 1914, the sum of $75,000 was named for the same object but has again been reduced by the department to $48,000. Of course, if we only get $48,000, we can build very few quarters, not as many as the number of officers who will be stationed at that post should have.

The CHAIRMAN. How many quarters have you there?

Col. MCCAWLEY. Four sets of quarters, one commanding officer's and three other sets for junior officers.

The CHAIRMAN. How many sets of quarters will this appropriation build?

The

Col. MCCAWLEY. $48,000 will build quarters for not more than seven officers; probably less. It will not be a very good arrangement, as the normal number of officers stationed at Boston is ten. quarters of the junior officers now are in such a condition that they are not habitable, and the officers are drawing commutation. The CHAIRMAN. Why, what is the trouble?

Col. MCCAWLEY. They are not really fit to live in; they are in such bad condition, and it would take quite a sum of money to put them in repair, and with this estimate before the Congress the commandant has ordered the officers out of the quarters for the time being.

The CHAIRMAN. How came the quarters to get in that condition? Col. MCCAWLEY. The age of the building, the poor manner in which it was originally built, the use of the quarters for nearly a century, lack of money to keep them in proper repair, and lately failure to spend any money on them while the question of new quarters has been before the Congress.

The CHAIRMAN. When were they built?

Col. MCCAWLEY. In 1823.

The CHAIRMAN. The officers' quarters?

Col. MCCAWLEY. The barracks and officers' quarters are all in one building. The officers' quarters were cut off from the original barracks building, just taken from each wing and made into officers' quarters, the commanding officer at one end and the junior officers at

the other.

Mr. ROBERTS. Will you put up any bachelor quarters?

Col. MCCAWLEY. Yes, sir; it is purposed putting up one set of bachelor officers' quarters to accommodate four bachelors. We have lately built these bachelor quarters at both Philadelphia and Norfolk, and they have proved very successful.

Mr. ROBERTS. Do you not build them larger than that?

Col. MCCAWLEY. We have built them to accommodate eight officers at Norfolk and Philadelphia. We should generally build them in proportion to the officers stationed at the place.

The CHAIRMAN. Are the walls of this old building falling down? Col. MCCAWLEY. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are the walls good?

Col. MCCAWLEY. I can not tell what condition the walls are in, so far as structural strength is concerned.

The CHAIRMAN. Please put that in the hearing.

Col. MCCAWLEY. Yes, sir. It is an old brick building, and has had a third story added in the last 25 years to give increased accommodations. It is badly cut up, and there is insufficient room for the proper

administration of the post. The commanding officer's office and the offices of other officers should be taken out of the rooms in the barracks that should be devoted to actual barrack purposes. The mess hall is so small in size that it is necessary to have three settings of the tables for each meal, and the kitchen and toilet facilities are entirely inadequate.

The CHAIRMAN. If the officers were taken out and the quarters now assigned to the officers were converted into quarters for barrack purposes, would that relieve the situation?

Col. MCCAWLEY. It would to a limited extent, but I am very sure, Mr. Chairman, if you could see this old building you would appreciate its condition and that it is really not suitable for present-day methods of housing men. The difference between that barracks and our newer barracks is so marked that men coming from one to the other become very easily dissatisfied with the conditions that they find at Boston. Some of the men, as I say, have to wait for the third table before they can get their meals, and all must go downstairs and out of doors to reach the toilet and wash rooms, which at night or in case of illness is bad.

Mr. ROBERTS. What has become of the proposition to do away with all of the barracks at the different yards and to make a sort of central barracks at League Island?

Col. MCCAWLEY. The building program at League Island is one that we hope is going to continue, and I have something to say about that this morning. We have abandoned, by order of the department, a number of our smaller stations, with the idea of centralizing marines at the principal stations on the two coasts, Philadelphia and Norfolk to be these stations on this coast, and Mare Island on the Pacific coast, but, of course, it is necessary to keep up some of the smaller stations like Boston, Portsmouth, and here in Washington.

The CHAIRMAN. Why is it necessary to keep up the stations at Portsmouth and Boston if you are going to carry out this policy of centralizing them at Norfolk and Philadelphia?

Col. MCCAWLEY. The idea of keeping large forces of men on the two coasts at these big stations is that they can have training in large numbers, and be immediately available for expeditionary purposes, but it is necessary to keep a few men at the smaller stations, not only for the protection of Government property, but those stations are the home ports of many ships in the fleet. Each ship now has a home navy yard where it goes on returning from maneuvering, and when they go to these stations it is necessary to effect transfers of men between the ships and the barracks.

The CHAIRMAN. What ships have their home at Portsmouth?

Col. MCCAWLEY. I do not know the names of the ships. The Secretary's report would show that. I think there are five or six, probably more than that, ships which have Portsmouth for their home port. I believe they are armored cruisers. Boston has a larger number, probably 10 or 12, and I think these are battleships. When these ships go to the home port they are obliged to effect transfers in the personnel, and in order to save transportation expense it is wise to keep a force of men at these stations.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Marine barracks, Philadelphia, Pa.: One set double quarters for officers, including foundation piling, $20,000." Please explain that item, Colonel.

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