azine four small magazine buildings for smokeless powder, having 1,500 square feet of floor surface each. There is also under construction one magazine building of standard size for smokeless powder, having 5,000 square feet of floor surface.

The CHAIRMAN. With reference to all of these different magazines, will you please include in the hearings a statement showing the relative necessity or comparative necessity of these different items, in the event that the committee should not see fit to recommend all of them, placing the more important ones first, so that the committee may have before it your estimate of the relative importance of the different items?

Admiral TWINING. Yes, sir.

The statement is as follows:

Relative importance of items of public works requested for ordnance stations.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Naval torpedo station, Newport, R. I.: Repairs to old machine shop, $8,000.' I understand that that item is eliminated?

S5873-13-16

Admiral TWINING. That estimate was submitted without my advice or knowledge and I do not care to have the appropriation. Mr. ROBERTS. How did that happen, Admiral?

Admiral TWINING. I do not know exactly. I laid my views before the department as to what was needed at that station. I did not know what action was taken until I saw this bill printed. Then I found that this estimate for the repair of this building had been submitted. I told the Assistant Secretary that I thought it was injudicious to repair that building to the extent of $8,000, and he gave me permission to ask the committee to withdraw the estimate. Mr. ROBERTS. Are you not supposed to lay before the Secretary the estimates for your bureau?

Admiral TWINING. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. And I understand that this item was not in your estimates?

Admiral TWINING. No, sir. I asked for a new building. This is a building in which the Bureau of Yards and Docks is also concerned, and I presume on the advice-I do not know-of the board to whom the question of these estimates was referred, probably the department decided that it was worth while to make the repairs.

Mr. ROBERTS. It may have happened that they thought it advisable to submit an estimate for the repair rather than the new building which you asked for?

Admiral TWINING. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the status of repair of the old machine shop; what is its present condition?

Admiral TWINING. There has been some disagreement, Mr. Chairman, as to the extent to which the building is unserviceable, and the inspector of ordinance in charge of the torpedo station, who is my representative on the ground, thinks that if any repairs are going to be made they should amount to about $18,000, and as that is about half the coast of a new building, neither he nor I thought it advisable to make any such extensive repairs. For the sum of $1,200 or $1,500, which I can furnish out of my annual appropriation, we can put the building in such shape that it can be used for another year or two, and postpone the question of more extensive repairs or a new building until the next session of Congress.

Mr. Foss. What bureau uses that building?

Admiral TwINING. The Bureau of Ordnance.

Mr. Foss. The Bureau of Steam Engineering has nothing to do with it?

Admiral TWINING. No, sir.

Mr. Foss. What right have they to say anything about the building? Admiral TWINING. The officers of the Bureau of Yards and Docks are in general charge of public work, and, of course, being civil engineers, are more competent than we are to judge of the architectural questions.

Mr. Foss. I thought you spoke of the Bureau of Steam Engineering? Admiral TWINING. No, sir.

Mr. Foss. This recommendation came from the Bureau of Yards and Docks?

Admiral STANFORD. No, sir.

Mr. Foss. Where did it come from?

Admiral STANFORD. The estimate was received by the Bureau of Yards and Docks from the station. These estimates were placed before a board of which Admiral Willits was the senior member, who reported to the Assistant Secretary, who, in turn, determined on the items now before the committee.

Mr. Foss. Is Admiral Willits the new director of navy yards?
Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. Foss. Did he go down there and make a personal investigation of that station?

Admiral STANFORD. Not to my knowledge. He may have been there, but I have no knowledge to that effect.

Mr. Foss. Who constituted this board that passed upon these estimates?

Admiral STANFORD. It was a board appointed by the Assistant Secretary.

Mr. Foss. Who were the members of it?

Admiral STANFORD. Admiral Willits, Capt. Straus, who was connected with office of aid for material, and myself.

Mr. Foss. No other aids?

Admiral STANFORD. No, sir.

Mr. Foss. Did this board go around and investigate the navy yards and stations?

Admiral STANFORD. Not as a board.

Mr. Foss. But they pass upon the estimates finally, do they, and their judgment goes? Is that right?

Admiral STANFORD. These three officers had their meetings in my office. There was no official report submitted by the board. The matter was handled entirely by the director of navy yards, who reported directly to the Assistant Secretary.

Mr. ROBERTS. Did the Assistant Secretary O. K. all the items recommended by this board that you speak of or did he reduce them further?

Admiral STANFORD. The Assistant Secretary determined upon the items which are included in the estimates.

Mr. ROBERTS. I understand, but did he accept all the items that were submitted to him by the board of which you were a member? Admiral STANFORD. He did not.

Mr. ROBERTS. In other words, he cut down the recommendations of that board?

Admiral STANFORD. He eliminated certain items.

Mr. ROBERTS. On his own volition?

Admiral STANFORD. As far as my own knowledge extends. The board gave favorable consideration to certain items which are not included in the estimates submitted.

Mr. ROBERTS. I would like to get for my own information just the complete scheme of making up these estimates. As I understand, the different bureaus, through their yard representatives, have annually certain estimates sent them of things desired for the ensuing fiscal year, and that those come to the chief of the bureau here in Washington. Does he go through the estimates submitted and eliminate any of them himself, or does he submit all of the estimates that ome to him from the yards to the board of which you speak?

Admiral STANFORD. This year the estimates were handled entirely by the board.

Mr. ROBERTS. The chiefs of bureau did not eliminate any of them before they were submitted to the board?

Admiral STANFORD. They did not. The different yards submitted recommendations covering improvements which the commandant thought necessary. According to the present arrangement the bureaus do not have any representatives at the navy yards except the commandant. The heads of departments at a navy yard all report to the commandant and the commandant is responsible for all recommendations from the yard. In other words, the bureaus do not have special representatives at the yard other than the commandant.

Mr. ROBERTS. Then I was in error in my assumption that the representatives of the bureaus at the yards sent in estimates to their bureau chiefs in Washington?

Admiral STANFORD. You were.

Admiral TWINING. The Bureau of Ordnance position is a little different from the other bureaus in that the naval magazines, the torpedo stations, and the proving grounds are peculiarly under the Bureau of Ordnance.

Mr. ROBERTS. Are not they in the jurisdiction of some navy yard? Admiral TWINING. A naval magazine is under the jurisdiction of the commandant of the yard to which it is an adjunct, but the inspector in charge of the magazine, except for certain military purposes, is more directly under me than he is under the commandant of the navy yard.

Mr. ROBERTS. In the case of your estimates, you make the recommendation to the department direct?

Admiral TWINING. Yes, sir. I did send them to the department after having eliminated a good many. Also some of these estimates go directly to the department from the commandants of the yards, and that is the reason some estimates that I did not wish have appeared here; for instance, the estimate at St. Juliens Creek maga zine, $2,000, for shed for repairing damaged powder tanks. I struck that out when I sent the estimates to the Secretary, but in the copy that went direct from the commandant to the Secretary that item was included. That is the reason why it got into the estimates and was approved by the Secretary.

Admiral STANFORD. The commandants in submitting their estimates in nearly every instance included certain items for magazine improvements. Those items came to the Bureau of Yards and Docks, and were considered by the board of which Admiral Willits was the senior member. The Bureau of Ordnance compiled or prepared a list of the appropriations which that bureau considered necessary, and which was sent direct by the Bureau of Ordnance to the department. That list was not referred by the department to this board and was not considered at any time by the board.

Mr. ROBERTS. The estimates that come from the commandant of a yard with regard to the needs of that particular yard do not go to the bureau chief?

Admiral STANFORD. They do not.

Mr. ROBERTS. They go direct to the Secretary?

Admiral STANFORD. They go directly to the Bureau of Yards and Docks.

Mr. ROBERTS. What becomes of them when they come into your bureau ?

Admiral STANFORD. This year they were referred to the board of which Admiral Willits was the senior member.

Mr. ROBERTS. Do you, as the chief of bureau, assume to eliminate any of the items that come to you from the commandants of the yards before you submit the estimates to Admiral Willits?

Admiral STANFORD. There were no eliminations whatever by the bureau preceding the consideration of the items by the board.

Mr. Foss. This is the first time this course of action was pursued? Admiral STANFORD. I think so.

Mr. Foss. You do not know whether any members of the board have visited any of the yards or stations to ascertain for themselves whether these things were necessary or not?

Admiral STANFORD. The director of navy yards has from time to time visited the various navy yards in this country. The Chief of the Bureau of Yards and Docks has visited the yards from time to time. Capt. Straus, who was attached to the office of the aid for material, did not, so far as I know, visit any of the yards preceding or incident to the consideration of these items.

Mr. Foss. There has been no visit by the director of navy yards, to your knowledge, for the purpose of investigating these estimates?

Admiral STANFORD. I presume he went to the yards principally for other reasons which were more intimately associated with his duties that is; the actual operations of the manufacturing divisionsbut it is probable that incident to such considerations he had brought to his attention the necessity for new buildings or additional shop facilities.

Mr. ROBERTS. This board, of which Admiral Willits was the senior member, had before it estimates from all these yards?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. These estimates affect the several bureaus in the Navy Department-that is, they relate to appropriations that will be made under the headings of the bureaus of the Navy Department?

Admiral STANFORD. The bureaus, other than the Bureau of Ordnance, are not very directly interested in these improvements for the reason that the public-works appropriations are largely for sea-wall construction, for dredging, for paving, for water supply, for powerplant facilities, and for general improvements which only indirectly affect the operations of the machinery division or the hull division. In years past it was the practice to request appropriations, for instance, for a machine shop for the Steam Engineering Bureau. At that time the steam engineering department might have been considered the direct representative of the Bureau of Steam Engineering, and under those conditions the Bureau of Steam Engineering was directly interested in the improvements requested; but, as a result of consolidation, the special interest is almost limited to the commandant, except in the case of ordnance matters, over which the Bureau of Ordnance has a more direct control.

Mr. ROBERTS. For instance, on page 60 of the bill, under "Navy yard, Puget Sound, Wash.," there is the item "ship fitters' shop, mold loft, and structural-steel storage, to cost $275,000, $120,000." That building will be used by some bureau?

Admiral STANFORD. Not by any bureau, but the item is to increase the facilities of the yard for performing work aboard vessels, and is requested primarily by the commandant in anticipation of greater