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Mr. HOBSON. And at the other yards generally?

Admiral STANFORD. It is my constant effort to get the yards to do more work with yard forces when such method is advantageous. The officers and heads of departments are differently constituted, however, in that regard. It is a matter of everyday attention to the details of the work to see that the materials that are needed are on the ground, that the men are properly equipped with tools, that the poor men are eliminated, and that the force is recruited to proper strength to prosecute the work to advantage. All that means a great deal of personal attention to detail.

Mr. HOBSON. Is not that the very essence of good management? Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. And if you fail in that you fail in good management? Admiral STANFORD. I think that commercial records show that only a small percentage of commercial enterprises are successful. is not fair to expect more from officers in this respect than from those in civil pursuits.

The CHAIRMAN. You stated awhile ago that an inefficient business management, if you characterize it as that, was unable to accomplish these results, and then you stated that there was an indisposition on the part of some officers to look after the details of the work so as to bring about the best results. I will ask you whether that is a lack in the line officers exclusively, whether it is a lack in the staff officers exclusively, or if it is in both?

Admiral STANFORD. I had in mind particularly the officer in direct charge.

The CHAIRMAN. So it does not apply to the line?
Admiral STANFORD. As much as to staff.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, then, if you find an officer of that kind who does not look after details and accomplish good results, would it not be good administration for the Secretary to apply the pruning knife to that officer?

Admiral STANFORD. That can not be done.

The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Admiral STANFORD. Elimination is authorized for the line only. There is no law providing for elimination from the staff corps.

The CHAIRMAN. But there is elimination provided for inefficiency, is there not, by court-martial?

Admiral STANFORD. That is true, for general inefficiency.

Mr. HOBSON. Not for inefficiency, I think, unless it is very culpable.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, do I understand you to say that if you have an officer who fails to give proper attention to his business and who, as a result of that, is inefficient, the department is powerless to remedy that situation or get rid of him, but must hold him in the service?

Admiral STANFORD. That is putting it a little bit too strong. A man may be especially efficient in one field but very weak in another. There are few who perform various duties with equal efficiency. Mr. Foss. They have not the same aptitude?

Admiral STANFORD. That is it. A man might be especially good in design work or in general administrative work who would be absolutely unable to handle a gang of men who were actually performing construction work.

Mr. HOBSON. Referring to the subject you were just discussing, have you observed that it might be advisable to have a system of elimination applied to the staff corps?

Admiral STANFORD. I think it would be a very wise thing indeed. Mr. ROBERTS. There is one way in which that could be done. That is done now in the way of staff promotions.

Admiral STANFORD. Even that does not apply to the corps of civil engineers because there is no examination for promotion, except from the assistant to the full grade.

Mr. LEE. Is it not a fact that there is no other navy yard in this country that has the same property that you have at League Island? Is it not a fact that the property there reduces the cost of paving? Admiral STANFORD. The conditions at Philadelphia are peculiarly favorable to construction work.

Mr. LEE. The stone, gravel, and sand you get there enter largely into the cost for paving work?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. LEE. You have only the brick to buy?

Admiral STANFORD. The brick and cement. Then, of course, there is the cost of the grading or excavating; the next process is the rolling; then the placing of the concrete base; then the placing of the sand bed; then the placing of the brick and rolling the brick; then the grouting of the brick, and also the construction of the curbing, which is necessary to retain the brick.

Mr. ROBERTS. Brick are cheaper at Philadelphia than at the other yards, are they not?

Admiral STANFORD. I do not know the relative cost of brick at Philadelphia and Boston. At Philadelphia the cost was $22.45 per 1,000.

Mr. ROBERTS. What was the cost of cement at Philadelphia as compared with the cost at Boston?

Admiral STANFORD. The cost of cement is about the same as at Boston, because it comes usually from the Lehigh Valley region.

Mr. ROBERTS. This paving brick you use at the yards on the north Atlantic coast, from Norfolk up to Boston, comes from substantially the same part of the country, does it not?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir. Mack paving brick has been used at Norfolk; it is used at Philadelphia, and, I think, Mack paving brick is also used at Boston.

Mr. ROBERTS. Where is that brickyard located?

Admiral STANFORD. Not far from Pittsburgh.

Mr. ROBERTS. And freight rates are naturally lower to Norfolk and Philadelphia from that point than to Boston?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. LEE. Was the price you named the price delivered at Philadelphia?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir; that was the price f. o. b. cars at Philadelphia.

Mr. ROBERTS. And you have some advantage in these cities over Boston, as I understand it, in the matter of freight?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir; probably some advantage.

Mr. ROBERTS. And that would be true of cement, also, would it not? Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir; cement would probably be a few cents cheaper at Philadelphia.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Electrical system, extension, $5,000."

Admiral STANFORD. This item is for the purpose of connecting the electric distributing system with various buildings in which the use of electricity is now required and which at present have no connections. The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Railroad system, extension and equipment, $10,000."

Admiral STANFORD. This item is to reduce the cost of hauling coal to the central power plant and the movement of freight and stores within the yard. For this purpose funds are required for the laying of additional railroad track and the purchase of additional equipment, such as locomotives and cars.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "For fireproofing of pattern shop, $22,000."

Admiral STANFORD. This item is for the purpose of constructing fireproof floors and bulkheads for the protection of patterns and to minimize fire risk. Proper protection of patterns is very necessary to avoid serious loss in making repairs to vessels.

Mr. ROBERTS. Has there been any fire there in recent years?

Admiral STANFORD. There was a fire in building No. 24, and, I think, in the carpenter shop also.

Mr. ROBERTS. I think there was one some years ago.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Remodeling building No. 40, $12,000." When I was over there I was impressed with the idea that they had some surplus buildings.

Mr. HOBSON. What is No. 40?

Admiral STANFORD. It was formerly used for the rolling mill and chain shop.

Mr. HOBSON. Why do you want to remodel it?

Admiral STANFORD. It is a recommendation from the yard. This building was formerly used for the manufacture of anchors and chains. Anchor manufacture has been abandoned and the chain-making work is to be moved into building No. 105, where all the rest of the blacksmithing is done. It is desired to convert building No. 40 into a place suitable for the storage of fittings of ships out of commission and for the storage of plates and shapes in a building where suitable racks and cranes can be provided for handling heavy material.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you not other buildings that you could use in lieu of that?

Admiral STANFORD. There has been considerable floor space vacated at the Boston yard as the result of the consolidation of shops. There is one building, No. 106, about 450 feet long by 110 feet wide, a modern shop building, now used only in small part for manufacturing purposes, the remaining space being utilized by the general storekeeper.

Mr. ROBERTS. I know that several years ago they were asking for a new building for stores at the Boston yard, and it was not granted, and it seems that they are taking this building and using it for that

purpose.

Mr. HOBSON. Of course that is an enormous building?

Admiral STANFORD. It is about 450 feet long and 110 feet wide, with a central bay 30 feet in width having overhead electric crane with runway 40 feet above floor level.

Mr. HOBSON. That is not a storeroom?

The CHAIRMAN. He said that only a part of it is being used for stores.

Admiral STANFORD. There are two side wings, each about 15 feet in width with mezzanine floors, outside of which are two other wings about 24 feet wide with overhead crane runways.

Mr. HOBSON. You would not use that kind of a building for general storage purposes?

Admiral STANFORD. It was not designed for that purpose.

Mr. HOBSON. Is this proposition of remodeling building No. 40 a part of the general plan for putting the buildings they have to more useful purposes?

Admiral STANFORD. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no official designation of building No. 40 for specific use.

Mr. HOBSON. The storing of material for ships out of commission so as to have it handy and ready to be put into commission quickly is a very important thing, but whether this building is best suited for that purpose or whether there is another building there that is better suited for the purpose, or whether we ought to go ahead and remodel more buildings there, are questions.

The CHAIRMAN. It is proposed to enlarge buildings Nos. 42 and 43 at a cost of $75,000. Has not the Secretary very largely curtailed the work at the Boston yard, and is it not about to be closed?

Admiral STANFORD. I believe he recommended at one time that the Portsmouth and Boston yards both be closed.

Mr. ROBERTS. He never got to the stage of a recommendation. That recommendation was not made.

The CHAIRMAN. There is an item here providing for the enlargement of buildings Nos. 42 and 43.

Mr. ROBERTS. I want to ask about building No. 40. anchor and chain shop. It did not have a floor, did it? Admiral STANFORD. It has a dirt floor.

That is the

Mr. ROBERTS. And some of this $12,000 is to be used in putting in concrete floor?

Admiral STANFORD. No, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. Would these pieces of metal be stored on that dirt floor?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir. It is contemplated to remove some of the interior bulkheads and rearrange the interior of the building and to put a crane way over a portion of it to facilitate the handling of heavy material.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us take up the item for the enlargement of buildings Nos. 42 and 43, at a cost of $75,000.

Admiral STANFORD. Building No. 42 is a large, very expensive, and elaborate building. It is in the form of a hollow square, and is used by the machinery division for machine shop, boiler shop, copper shop, and pattern shop. The space which is now assigned for the boiler shop is complained of as being insufficient when there is a large amount of boiler work on hand, and, especially, that the space is not well adapted for the purposes of a boiler shop because there is no overhead crane to assist in handling heavy weights. The yard has requested that the boiler shop be enlarged by removing one of the side walls of the building and raising a new side wall along the curb line, which would add to the building a floor space about 45 feet wide and 200 feet long, or 9,000 square feet.

Mr. HOBSON. Do you know what ships make the Boston yard their home?

Mr. ROBERTS. You will get that information from the Secretary's report.

Admiral STANFORD. As to building No. 43, it is proposed to use the room for the installation of a sanitary washroom for use of all workmen of the machinery division. The building is located in the center of the machinery division quadrangle, and was formerly used for the steam engineering boiler plant. Necessary alterations to the building, removal of the smokestack, laying of new floors, plumbing fixtures, and installation of plumbing and heating will be required to fit up this building. At the present time the men have to use pails at their machines and hang their clothes throughout the shop.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Remodeling building No. 77 for boat storage, $15,000."

Admiral STANFORD. Building No. 77 is a long masonry building, the lower floor of which is used as a boat shop. They wish to remove the main floor of the building and combine certain basement space with the present first-floor space in order to give additional headroom, and then construct new craneways the length of the building in order that they may have proper headroom and facilities for handling and storing boats. The scheme proposes, incidentally, to remove the boat shop from building No. 77 to building No. 114, placing the boat shop on the second floor of this building. The second floor is now used for boat storage, but this use is not considered desirable on account of the artificial heat in the building, which opens the seams and leads to the damage of the boats. They wish to move the boats over to building No. 77, where they can be maintained in a cold condition, as that building is better suited for the purposes of boat storage.

Mr. ROBERTS. Do they store boats in building No. 77 now?
Admiral STANFORD. There are a few there.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Improvement of coaling plant, $65,000."

Admiral STANFORD. That, I think, is to go out.

The CHAIRMAN. You want that eliminated?

Admiral STANFORD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The next is, "Power-plant improvements, $3,900." Admiral STANFORD. The engine room is found to be excessively hot during the summer months, which not only makes it uncomfortable for the attendants in the engine room but also tends to damage the electrical insulation. The item is for the purpose of providing a monitor ventilator in the roof of the engine room to avoid overheating of the engine room and the destructive effect which overheating has upon the electrical equipment.

The CHAIRMAN. Would the cost of that be $3,900?

Admiral STANFORD. That is the estimate from the yard. It would provide a monitor ventilator the length of the engine room, with sash that can be opened, and would be fireproof construction, consistent with the details of the present roof.

Mr. ROBERTS. I was just looking at this map. What does this represent [indicating]?

Admiral STANFORD. That used to be a boiler room. They now want to use the room as a lavatory, locker, and toilet room.

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